Judy, I am not going to discuss with you anymore. I am tired, after two years, of the constant argument. As regards myself, your only purpose is to oppose anything I say.
Things like this: You are a good example of how doctrine can blind ppl. do not come from the spirit of God. I already know
Judy, here is the perfect example of what Lance has been telling you these past couple of days. Look at this exchanget:
Why are you saying this? The DEFINITION is not found in that text and I check the KJ just to be sure that we were not arguing from different versions. It ain't there !!
It
Judy, do you know what it means when a word is italicized in the KJ?
I'm not into quibbling over Gk words JD;
Yeh, we wouldn't want to accuse you of quibbling. You know full well that the italicized words in the KJ (aren't you one of them there KJ onlyist peoples?) means THAT THE WORD IS
You need "understanding" which comes by way of the Holy Spirit, rather than Barthian "rationalizing" JD
I probably have had the Spirit longer than you, my dear -- I think I am older than you. I was certainly more prolific than you. jd
You are in no position to make this evaluation JD. Jesus
Oh !! So now I am "an old fool." I'll have you know that those words are reserved for my wife, only. Well, my wife and my kids.and neighbor Fred . never mind.
jd
-- Original message
Actually, the G man has given us one of Dylan's better quotes.
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hmmm! Dylan ought to be much more concerned about being him on that day.
On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 21:25:35 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Well,
Judy, it is critically important to me that Jesus be God. It is in this world, on this earth and clothed with the same flesh as I that Jesus establishes Himself and His mission as that which continues the work of the Israel of God. I serve Him because of what He did in this world. I worship Him
Beans. I wasn't finished with that last post.
I worship Him because of who He is in this world.
Jesus tells us that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him -- in this world curing His incarnation. Take a glass of orange juice and mix in a glass of water. In time, the two ellements will
Amen!!
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd: John for me it is difficult to grasp the full spectrum of what the other person is conveying in this medium. I believe this holds true for the entire group as I have wittinessed other becoming angry
Yes, DM does come across differently than he writes. Good for him. Too bad (at times) for those who have to read him.
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
interestg
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 07:31:27 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[i] had the
DH, this was on another site - from a discussion about the two Mormon churches:
The reason the Utah LDS don't use the Joseph Smith translation is because the Reorginized LDS was found to be the sucessor of the Church Joseph Smith started by a court and it was given the copyright to the JST.
It is never a mole hill to deny Christ as God !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD, this is not worth any more bandwidth - you are making a mountain out of a molehill ... a little teeny molehill
at that. Matthew was not being original
The word tranlated "pleased" in the gk text is the word in question. "Father" or "God" is atached to that word. That attachment is a personification and does not actually , literally , exist in the text. There are good reasons for this personificiation, I admit. I just think that if we allow for
Dean writes:
cd: Amen John but on that shady side I want to be sure that "thought" did come from God and not man-but I can also agree that the Holy Spirit can teach us which is of God and which is of man. This fear of being sure stems from the fact that I dwell uponthe read word almost
Dean, Don't get me wrong, here. I do not believe the Catholic Church speaks for God. I am talking about the members (that I know, personally) and not the RCC. Maybe I cannot argue this point without appearing to be supportive of Catholicism.
When you speak of the Pope forgiving sins -- it helps
Jack Benny couldn't have said it better !! :--)
What do you say, Judy. I'M IN on this one
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'll tell you what, Judy, your constant accusation that we (John, Lance, myself, et al) are conforming to
Hmm - that not a bad a idea!!
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd: Good to see you are not in total disagreement with Street Preaching John. Would you care to go and wittiness some of that in person in order to better understand
Three in one? You have admitted to the idea of the Trinity, whether you intended to or not.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't deny Christ is God any more than I deny the Holy Spirit is God or the Father is God JD
However, you have
Thanks, Dean
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/6/2006 11:43:47 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ as the incarnate God
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 14:38:05 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perry doesn't seem to want to get involved period. That aside, I said it like l did because I meant it that much.
Don't you think it
60 years old. I think I am five or six years younger than Judy -- that would make her the matriarch of the forum.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
To:
Dean, I do not fly and I live way out here on the left coast. If N.O. were within 8-10hours, I would do it. I am hoping to come out to see G and Bill in the late spring. Maybe we could at least get together then.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL
I missed this post. Or at least we can meet ,grab a meal and talk. Two against one sounds good to me !! I am kidding (about the two on one) but not about the fellowship.
Let's figure out a way to make it work.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts. Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two below, just prior to Dean's quote of Wesley.
Dean, I believe there is a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit. The Spirit expresses the will of the Father and the Son. You do not know anything
G, let me know when you get my check for the bat. That's right, Dean !! I'm buying a bat !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
..what if, perhaps. elemental to BTs commentary, there genuinely appears to bea qualitatively greater revelation thanyour
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to say what it says rather than striving to make it conform to some
doctrine built by men? Yours is the man-made doctrine, Judy. (Now that we have done the "yes
But as Adam Clark shows in the below "the Fullness"mentioned are Godly attributes as Christ is one with God.
Hi, Dean. You seem to beadding a correction of sorts to what I said. I certainly believe Christ to be the Son of God and , thus, God. I hope you do not misunderstand my point. In the end,
Well, I am kind of liking the new Dean.
Anyway -- maybe the difference is found in our function within the Body or just our personality make-up. I could have been quite the intellectual, I think, except that I was put into an Okies body !! I am as hick a looking guy as you will find. I write
Awesome !!
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd: Bill I will attempt to find areas of disagreement with John's posts as this is what I believe bothyou and John are both looking for in order to better distinguish the God head relationship
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 23:28:58 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JD what is wrong with just allowing the scripture to say what it says rather than striving to make it conform
kidding, of course. Actually, I am going to use the bat at the local batting cages. The closest thing to physical excercise that I really want to get, in my old age.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
How do you define Idolatry John? If you are the one whom decides whatIdol is or is not-what do you do with God's definition of what an idol is?
An idol is both an object and a concept. It is of man's own creation, on both counts. And it takes one away from the true and Living God. All three
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 08:38:57 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello Bill. thanks for the post and the thoughts. Apparently, I missed reading the last sentence or two below, just prior to Dean's quote of
60
-- Original message -- From: "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
. . .my dear -- I think I am older than you.
I have no way of knowing, for sure, but my hunch is that you are not. I am pretty sure that John is sixty. Is that right, John? How old are you, Judy?
Bill
-
couple of thoughts, Dean. I do not think we disagree at all on point #4. The union that is the being we know as Jesus (Son of God, Son of Man) is not possible without the function of humility (Philip 2) and that is what you are talking bout at #4. You make a timely addition to what I said. I
1. Matt 1:23 gives us the word "Immanuel" as a name for Jesus.Most significantly, the Apostle Matthew gives us the meaning of this word, an apostolic definition, if you will --- God with us. This single sentence should end the controversry, but, of course, people will choose to follow
Do Catholics think of these statues as "idols.?" Are they not expressions of their faith in God and His Christ? None of the idols of the Message were attached to the Living God. The compaison, Dean, that you make is not a biblical one.
jd
-- Original message -- From:
Never mind.
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/4/2006 9:13:13 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unsubscribe please
I received the package
:--)
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 05, 2006 10:51
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Unsubscribe please
Never mind.
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From:
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;TruthTalk
Sent: 1/5/2006 10:13:21 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Cross
Do Catholics think of these statues as "idols.?" Are
Wow. A very good post.
Thanks
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dean Moore
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
- Original Message -
From: Dean Moore
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 1/5/2006 12:18:07 PM
What is this?
Dave, in your temple ceremony, who does it depict Satan paying to preach his message?cd: A Baptist Preacher/Pastor as JD is.
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Original Message] From: Charles Perry Locke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Next time you want to get my attention, you might try this, "HEY, JOHN "
:-)
And I still miss the point. In your example, am I the hero or a pimp for Satan?
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Both you and DM appear somewhat preoccupied with 'sodomites' (ie. homo's). I do trust that it's not a Freudian slip on the part of either of you. Say it ain't so, Joe!
- Original Message -
From:
I received the package today !!. Wow. The series from Victor Shepherd looks great. Theology of the Person, taught by a pastor !! Excitement !!
I have to admit that I am not doing much tonight. USC v Texas is the assignment for the evening.
I have to build a fire, finish cooking a home-made
I like it when I read a post and actually learn something, don't you guys ??
Some great thoughts. I would review but you just wrote the post !! So, like the man said, "Don't just do someting, stand there!!"
Thanks for these words. Much to think on - between the lines.
jd
--
You appear to be well informed. My frustration with you and Blaine is the constant confusing of your personal beliefs and the official version.
jd.
-- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] I know some to be followers of Christ , who know next to
Your personal use of the word is noted and accepted. my in-laws are Mormon. I make nothing up.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] a Mormon slang word used by them to describe all who are not of "the [Mormon] truth?""protestant" is another way
Got lost in the shuffle. "Salvation"has more than one definition IMO. We are saved from judgment. We are saved from ourselves. Perhaps there are other considerations, We are not involved in the former. We are partners (ontologically speaking) in the latter.
jd
-- Original message
Keep in mind, Dean, that DM's version of Linda's post is a cut and paste version. He leaves out the part that makes Linda a mockery of her own authorship.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cd: Perhaps the Christians on this site don't
You're welcome. Perhaps you can share your view or explain the question.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] DAVEH: Thanx for the reply, John. I know how that happens.a lot of stuff gets posted, and questions asked that tend to get
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, you are re-establishing the correct interpretation of the Bible?DAVEH: No, that is not what I said, or impliedbut now that you have mentioned it, I do believe the restoration does have that effect. I can see
Again, DH, your question of Perry gives me further evidence that the Mormon Church has no clue as to the atonement as taught in preApostate scripture. Without the resurrection, all that Christ said and did is of no consequence. We clearly do not share the same gospel if that is not a part of your
suggests the term Protestant can infer more than simply protesting the RCC,
I do not make that separation. Protestantism is a response , an objection, to the RCC. Why would you insist on using the term in a differing way? I , for one, do not think the RCC is any further from the truth of God in
Poor DM. I have not been a part of the Churches of Christ for some 32 years. My denominational background has nothing to do with my theology at this late date. Secindly, Aimee Semple McPherson is the founder of Four Square. She was not responding to a negative RCC consideration.Certainly, I am no
How many times have we heard from right wingers that it is not ad hom if it i true!!??
jd
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] You were simply described.DAVEH: Lance, may I ask you where you draw the line on an ad-hom? Is it possible describing somebody
I have lost count but it occurred on nearly every occasion that I was called a heretic or "just plain stupid." or a child of the devil..
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] You tell us, John. How many times have you heard that from
Double talk.
Secondly, it not His will but the will of his father that sent Him to the cross -- "nevertheless not my will but thine be done."
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not a myth, Gary, but rather your statement adds
If you agree with Perry, then why the question?
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the resurrection, all that Christ said and did is of no consequence.DAVEH: Did I not say the very same thing in previous posts, Pastor? If you failed to note that I
If there be no resurrection the dead, we of all men or most to be pitied.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] David, I see your point...I, too, beleive that the cross is central, but still, without the resurrection the gospel would
Nice try.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think there was only one person who said it. Kevin, if I remember correctly, and I corrected him and told him that it was an ad hominem argument even if it was true.
David M.
-
David, do you understand how the Mormons use this word "protestant?" Do you understand that I do not like that characterization? Do you understand thatit isgross sectarianism that insists on the separation between RCC and those who reject papel authority? Do you know that there are millions of
I know some to be followers of Christ , who know next to nothing about Mormonism. With that in mind, my answer is yes. I do not think the Mormon Church is a Christian institution, however because it claims to be what it is not -- the restored chruch of the biblcial message. And, if you
David, I would assume that you believe one can believe in a different Christ. How would that be the case in your mind? You are surely not saying that since there is only one Christ,there is no possibility of belieing in afalse Christ.
jd
-- Original message -- From:
May I write down that Judy T denies the deity of Christ?
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't think so Lance, if they were you would understand that God CAN NOT die or are
you of the same persuasion a certain Germanwho proclaimedGod
Amen to this!!
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe, DavidM, the question ought to have been: Who is the gospel? The pre-existing God, incarnating as a Jew, living, dying, descending, resurrecting, ascending, sitting and interceding. Why
Killing is love expressed? So , letting my first and evil previously happy ex to live is unfair to my present and darling wife? I'm starting to like your gospel !!
jd
- Original Message -
From: David Miller
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 02, 2006 09:49
Subject: Re:
Why is not her reference to Lance, G and myself not included in this reference?
We are the swine -- but, hey, if its true, it ain't not one ofthem there ad harmonica things.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Read what followed this
Considering that she uses the words of Jesus to cut and insult others who are His disciples is just exactly why she needs to be somewhere else.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Considering that Izzyis quoting Jesus who is the author
I said that McPherson did not start her church as an objection to the RCC. That's my story and I'm sticking to it your parsing of words aside.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] DaveH wrote: If I remember correctly, you
Unfortunately, I do agree. Now that I think of it, you are right in your statement of the use of the word "gentile."
do you know of any websites , by Mormons , that give an outline of the Church suitable for comparison of the preApostate First Church?
jd
-- Original message
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: When you read this word, you see "office" and argue from that perspective. When I see the word "apostle." I see
I am serious and I repeat. If this is wrong, please clarify.
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
May I write down that Judy T denies the deity of Christ?
jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't
Please give tis some attention.
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
David, I would assume that you believe one can believe in a different Christ. How would that be the case in your mind? You are surely not saying that since there is only one Christ,there
Do you have confidence in this vision? If not, I will understand.
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why notshare that vision with us, now? If it proves to be 100% accurate, you would most definitely make a believer out of me as to your claim to be an
Yes. I am a little surprised to realize that the supposed reason for the Mormonism is simply not the case. That, coupled an extremely poor understanding of the atonement as it relates to biblical (preSpostate) scripture and the Jewish history of the blood scrifice - well, we have a very different
Oh, I almost forgot. I do want to know in detail the Mormon doctrine of blood atonement as it relates to the Christ.
That is a biggy to me.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, I have come across no such website as of yet. And
Looks like exactly what I am looking for. I have tired of not getting straight answers. No one seems to want to commit to anything . This is from the horses mouth (I assume I am at the correct end of the animal !!). The best sourse of info, in a debate, is the info supplied by the opponent. ...
I know that this is a little sacry, but I think that I actually do understand the G Force.
jd
-- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] You could be right. I will pretend to understand him too.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I can almost hear Terry saying,
Yes you are. That denomination did not come from the Portestant response to RCC theology.
I am not a protestant, in any event. One of our daughters is RCC and full of faith. My degree came from a Catholic University and I have a deeply felt consideation for the Catholic historian. You should
The most current posting form jd
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Not what I said at all. I spoke of
additional scripture. No need for more if it was right to start with. DAVEH: You are losing me, JD.are you now saying the heavens are open to
You know, I actually gave my comment some thought. But, as I readher final post, I realized that I needed to make my point. I will not discuss it further, David, since she is gone (she has left before, by the way.) I have as much fondness of her and she has expressed towards me. Just being
ny, I was thinking the sameof your theology. Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] apostles and prophets See comments below. -- Original messag
And therein is its limitation. Right?
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
..cultic-apostolic theory rules from the right of the right
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 08:31:58 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
in context, the essence of current compound/ed
Don't get too excited, DH. Miller is just having another one of his "wherefore art thou" moments. He actually believes in the very same scriptures the rest of do. He just wants to be differenct from me.
Where youseethe myopic, I see the the ability of God to get things done and the power to
jd in blood red
-- Original message -- From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] He actually believes in the very same scriptures the rest of do. DAVEH: As I understand DavidM, he believes prophets exist today. Is that the way you believe as well, Bishop? From your posts, I was
I can almost hear Terry saying, "save the women and children !!"
Perhaps we need to humor the one who is the maker of bats !!!
jd
-- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't pretend to understand himJohn. It just encourages him to keep writing
back at you all. .
jd
-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lance
If truth be told, info from the hearing of flies on the wall would reveal that "protestant" is a word used by the Mormon faithful as they speak with contempt of the opposing hordes. The public use of the word is one thing -- the private use is another. It is the perfect ad hom .
As to date of your historical authority, the Hipp man, I confused the date of a list his name appears in. Your dates are correct. He is the same man who leaves the Church, declares himself anitpope and makes himself a successor to the Apostles. His comments about Mark, nearly 200 years after the
David maneuves to pin jd to the wall:
Upon what authority do you base your perspective that Mark was not around during Christ's ministry?I caution you not to embellish upon second hand theories that you read from theologians in such a way that it would cause you to reject primary historical
John in whatever color this is.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi John. I was not sure that you were the one who wrote that piece in the beginning, which is why I spoke about the "author." It is a very common doctrine among scholars and
David -- this post causes me some concern. Aaahh, but I will limit my response to your comments. Read on.
P.S. Yes, I am writing this note after beginning my response. I have a three hour treadmill thingyto do at 12:30. I must get ready .
-- Original message -- From:
An effeminate remark which even the female founder of your church has disagreed with. If you had a picture of me, you wouldnotaccuse me of "effeminate" anything. Apparently you honor Semple as some kind of authority within the Christian co mmunity. I do not.
a single word in this case, changes
I just got back from the clinic. I must apologize for the very poor quality of writing in this post. I was a little worried about the test and in a hurry. Whatever. As I reread the post, well, it was a little embarrassing. Apologies.
jd
-- Original message -- From:
See comments below.
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
My recent comments in Green.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:40
And the most caustic among us has moved on!
-- Original message --
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Having been moving for the last couple of days, I just got a chance to sit
down for a rest and browse through TT. I am dismayed as what I see. I
Whoa -- next Perry tells us to "cool it," maybe, just maybe, we should listen.
You're freakin us out, Perry.
jd :-)
-- Original message -- From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Terry, Maybe you are speaking from experience, but I believe that cold turkey is
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:14:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy, when it comes to a choice , a real choice, between discussing character judgments or doctrine, you choose the character issues nearly all
Dave, I am working on a response to some of what you have addressed to me.
Trying to get some work done, spend some time with my visiting son, and
getting some tests done (health related) complicates things a bit.
This subject, from a biblical perspective, is as beneficail as anything I
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