This bug report was marked as Incomplete and has not had any updated
comments for quite some time. As a result this bug is being closed.
Please reopen if this is still an issue in the current Ubuntu release
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download . Also, please be sure to
provide any requested
Hi info-jnmedia,
Please be sure to confirm this issue exists with the latest development
release of Ubuntu. ISO CD images are available from
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/ . Please then run following command
from a Terminal (Applications-Accessories-Terminal). It will
automatically gather
Some results of testing various combinations on my system:
Using 2.6.29 with default kernel params has the problem.
Using 2.6.29 with noapic has the problem.
Using 2.6.29 with maxcpus=1 fixes the problem.
(2.6.29 = http://www.ramoonus.nl/2009/03/24/linux-kernel-2629
Using 2.6.29 with default kernel params still shows the problem
(installed from the instructions at http://www.ramoonus.nl/2009/03/24
/linux-kernel-2629-installation-guide-for-ubuntu-and-debian-linux/).
But when used in conjunction with kernel parameters noapic
maxcpus=1 the freezes don't
ksg,
The freezes I was experiencing have been resolved in the 2.6.29 kernel.
These changes are being back-ported to 2.6.28 and 2.6.27 as I understand
it, but I don't believe they've been released yet.
I suggest trying 2.6.29.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
I also suffer these freezes. I've put the details of my experience in
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/347150 where I've logged suspend
doesn't work on the same hardware.
AMD64, 4Gb, nvidia 7300GS.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received
I believe this bug is related to c1e. If you google amd 64 c1e, you will
find a patch that disables it; however, I don't believe this patch ever
entered the mainline kernel.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you
Able to reliably reproduce freeze on 8.10 (Intrepid) 2.6.27-7 with dual-
core AMD64, and multiple versions of NVIDIA drivers.
** Changed in: linux (Ubuntu)
Status: Incomplete = New
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug
Please see the following kernel bug report which includes some details
of my system configuration and steps to reproduce.
http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11527...
The problem appears to be related to interrupt handling (and possibly
CPU frequency power management) on multi-core AMD64
After months of acceptable stability, the problems seems to be coming
back.
Again my system is locking up on a daily basis. It's the only bug that
makes me want to switch from Ubuntu, I'm getting pretty f*cking
exasperated.
It happens exactly like it use to happen on Gutsy (I'm now on Hardy).
Since my message on 2007-11-11 I've left my Nvidia drivers as per that
message and have upgraded the Hardy.
I've not had a single lock up since that time.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of
My 64bit Ibex system seems stable after changing SDRAM timings in the
BIOS - sticks were advertised as 4-4-4-15 so that's what I originally
manually set them as. After I posted above on 9/21 I changed BIOS
settings to Auto, which selects 5-5-5-15 timings it has been stable
under Ibex64 Alpha 6
I repro in Ibex Alpha 6 and previously on 64bit Heron. System was rock
solid when it ran 32 bit Heron. Hard locks several times a day,
typically during higher activity/interactivity per above accounts
making it difficult to seriously use the machine.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
The Ubuntu Kernel Team is planning to move to the 2.6.27 kernel for the
upcoming Intrepid Ibex 8.10 release. As a result, the kernel team would
appreciate it if you could please test this newer 2.6.27 Ubuntu kernel.
There are one of two ways you should be able to test:
1) If you are comfortable
Morning already? Another day, another lock-up. Kernel netconsole
attached. Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at
0200 RIP: [8025cd04] tick_sched_timer+0x64/0x100.
Ubuntu 2.6.24-19.34-generic.
** Attachment added: screenlog.0
Another lock-up. Kernel netconsole attached. Unable to handle kernel
NULL pointer dereference at 0058 RIP: [80249a70]
handle_stop_signal+0x10/0x1c0. Ubuntu 2.6.24-19.34-generic still. Any
next step suggestions to providing more info or accuracy welcome.
** Attachment added:
Another lock-up. Kernel netconsole attached. It locks more frequently
than this, but I'd estimate netconsole output exists for only every
other one. Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at
0200 RIP: [8025cd04] tick_sched_timer+0x64/0x100.
/proc/version_signature
Another lock-up. Kernel netconsole attached. Unable to handle kernel
NULL pointer dereference at 0226 RIP: [802895f8]
__rmqueue+0x138/0x240. /proc/version_signature is Ubuntu
2.6.24-19.34-generic. I'm going to keep adding these in the hope it's
doing some good. :-)
**
Got another lock-up, Unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference
at RIP: [8028f71f]
isolate_lru_pages+0x9f/0x210; see attached netconsole output.
/proc/version_signature = Ubuntu 2.6.24-19.33-generic. Are these the
kind of things developers want?
** Attachment
Update from me (feel free to request more date if needed)
I thought I avoided the freezing by removing my nvidia card, the system
has worked OK for a wile now. But now after chaning the driver to my
internal AMD X1250 card to the fglrx driver I got back to old issue
connected with the 4GB ram..
Still happening with vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic. One thing I've just
noticed, printk() output in dmesg has a timestamp at the start of the
line. It should be seconds since booting but this machine is
consistently running at about 1600 seconds an hour. Could this be
connected? Some kind of CPU
I'm not sure if I should post this info here as if I use kernel 2.6.24-19 now,
but maybe it is usefull for older kernels too...
Or for you kernel developers ;-)
Found some things worth testing on the Linux NVidea forum:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46678
and
OK, got a freeze with vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic. Alt-SysRq didn't work.
Reset button needed. Attached is what was logged by netconsole.
** Attachment added: screenlog.0
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/15515793/screenlog.0
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
trying to set a pattern from the lockups, i can say that there are more
frecuent if i have an open window/tab with a site like netvibes.com or
gmail. I'm trying to identify if skype can be a source of crashes
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received
Hi
Thanks for the bug report. Don't know if the following is relevant.
I have upgraded to Hardy (8.04). When I first upgraded, I was having problems
bootoing in. I had to press escape and go into recovery mode and press rfix.
Since then (over 15 days now) Hardy hasn't crashed once, even after
I'm using hardy (32 bit) right now, and the freezes persist, but only
when i'm using a wifi connection
My system:
CPU amd sempron 3500+
2 GB ram
HD SATA 120 Gb
Nvidia GeForce 6200
Wifi card: Broadcom Corporation BCM94311MCG wlan mini-PCI (rev 02) (ndiswrapper
1.50)
--
gutsy amd64 freeze
It's sad, I've had the same short freezes again in kernel, but less,
less frequent:
Linux version 2.6.24-16-generic ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (gcc version 4.2.3
(Ubuntu 4.2.3-2ubuntu7)) #1 SMP Thu Apr 10 13:23:42 UTC 2008 (Ubuntu
2.6.24-16.30-generic)
and
Linux version 2.6.24-18-generic ([EMAIL
Maybe I have something usefull...
I found these messages for the second time in dmesg just after/on/before
the short freezes I experience:
[ 6797.155790] NVRM: Xid (0005:00): 6, PE 0280 1400 fc3c 00ff
[ 6797.171010] NVRM: Xid (0005:00): 36, L1 - L0
found NVRM on
I have short lockups of the screen (x-server). I can move the mouse
but no reaction on mouseclicks. No response from hitting keyboard
(e.g. caps lock). I only have SHORT lockups (I guess 10 seconds). I
have seen them most in Firefox where I do a lot of mousescrolling (USB
mouse).
If that's
After having lots of problems with short freezes (as discribed earlier)
I did a fresh install of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy) on a brand new harddisk in
my HP Pavilion dv6361eu. This did the trick for me, my problems are
gone. The Hardy cd installed driver NVidea version 169.12 just out of
the box.
Best
There are well meaning comments on this bug, try this or that, and this
worked for me, but there's an underlying problem here. Ubuntu don't
seem to have a mechanism for getting users to gather data on a kernel
bug.
The result is we're left on our own. There's plenty of people suffering
on here
This is an interesting related article worth giving a shot -
http://linuxtechie.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/annoying-freezes-caused-by-
nvidia-driver/
According to the article, it's related to cpu scaling from powernowd
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You
Hi every one.
First, please pardon my poor english !
I had the same trouble on Debian testing.
I've try everything... without success !
The only solution i've found is to disable ethernet driver in bios setting : in
fact, the trouble appears often during network traffic.
So, i've disable the
Same problem for me also... system will randomly freeze. I was using Gutsy.
Spent a lot of time trying to figure out what the issue was. I thought it might
be related to a TSC drift related problem, but it is inconclusive.
I also recently tried installing Arch Linux with kernel 2.6.22, and it
As you may see on my previous post on 2007-11-18 I, as others as well,
managed to get past this bug.
That should be the solution, as far as I know, for those who have a
nvidia graphic card. I never had any freezes since. To facilitate
installation you may try envy.
Recently I've upgraded to
Same problem here, system freezes after 2 - 10 min.
Started after I added more RAM.
Everything worked fine (no freezes past 12 months) this was when my system was
running on 1 GB RAM (2x 512).
I recently replaced the 2x512MB with 2x2GB modules. The system detects the RAM
ok, but as everyone
The problem u are all having is a hardware problem
If you're suggesting we've all got a hardware fault then you are
mistaken. In the particular case I'm monitoring, the exact same
hardware locks up day after day with 7.10 and not at all with 7.04.
I'm glad you've resolved your problem, but it
If it's hardware problem It seems to be a AMD or Nvidia problem. I have 2
AMD systems, one at work (4800 on Gutsy) which is about one year old and one
at home (5000 on Hardy beta) that is about 6 months old. Both have exactly
the same problem.
2008/4/5, nokesy [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
The problem u
Same problem here. Hard Freeze, have to reset.
Can't find any warnings in the system logs though.
AMD64 Dual Core
Nvidia 8600GT
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is
The problem u are all having is a hardware problem
this botherd me for weeks and after alot of reasearch i found out y my computer
kept freezing up
( mouse and keyboard stops responding and all progrms freezes and forces to
reset )
it something to do woth either:
Realtek sound drives or other
Same problem here, I use Ubuntu Gutsy at work and it drives me crazy.
My computer freeze *at least* one or two times a day, when I say freeze
it's cold dead freeze. Everything just stop working in a split second,
most of the time is when I click to open a document or a folder, or even
an email.
Just to follow up, my computer still crashes (but not as often), even
with the drive disconnected.
And how is the importance undecided?!?!? i think it's critical if ubuntu
can't run for 2 days without crashing and freezing the system. or are
their hidden criteria that I do not know to set what
And how is the importance undecided?!?!? i think it's critical if
ubuntu can't run for 2 days without crashing and freezing the system.
or are their hidden criteria that I do not know to set what the
importance is! is it because no one knows the cause of the crash?
Agreed. This bug's
I am not sure this is related, but my gutsy keeps crashing as well, but
I roughly know what causes my crashing, my Western Digital external hard
drive, when I have it mounted and copying files from it, the system
crashes for sure! so I can reproduce this anytime! :) but I dont know
what to do
I realize this might be a broken harddrive, but even though, is ubuntu
supposed to crash this way if there's an IO error?
No.
It seems the problem comes along the more busy the machine is. It could
just be that copying lots of files in and out of RAM is busy enough.
Still, only a couple
the good news is, my drive is not broken! I started ubuntu in single
user mode, and copied the files over with cp, and it succeeds, I managed
to copy 200GB, when an X session is running and i copy some files over,
the whole machine crashes! :S is there anything I can do to help? since
I can
hi
i'm not sure that this is the same bug, since some say that its not hardware
related.
i'm running an amd x2 64bit 4400+, nvidia 6600 gt, 2X512 MB ram, etc and i
switched from win about 2 weeks ago. i installed kubuntu 7.10 and my computer
started freezing randomly like everyone elses.
Hi
I have installed 32-bit gutsy with xp in virtualbox. Everything works perfect
but if I enable usb
in virtualbox, the mouse freezes. I have NVidea GFX 6200 Graphics card
Regards
Bhupi
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug
I have installed 32-bit gutsy with xp in virtualbox. Everything works
perfect but if I enable usb in virtualbox, the mouse freezes. I have
NVidea GFX 6200 Graphics card
Bhupi, I don't think your problems are connected to this bug unless
you're forgetting to tell us something. If it's only
Ralph Corderoy wrote:
I have installed 32-bit gutsy with xp in virtualbox. Everything works
perfect but if I enable usb in virtualbox, the mouse freezes. I have
NVidea GFX 6200 Graphics card
Bhupi, I don't think your problems are connected to this bug unless
you're forgetting to tell
Hi Ralph
Thanks for the reply. I am new to Linux and not very knowledgable.
Kind regards
Bhupi
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu.
--
Bhupi, take a look at bug #161748. It may be the same problem with
virtualbox that you're having. If so, add a clear description of what
doesn't work and change the status from `New' to `Confirmed'. You can
do this by clicking on `New'.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
i had this on an Amilo A1667G laptop with amd turion, disabling the
dynamic frequency scaling solved that problem.
so please test disabling the default frequency scaling tool: powernowd
you can do this for your current session by:
sudo /etc/init.d/powernowd stop
when this solves your hard
Hi bojo42,
sudo /etc/init.d/powernowd stop
when this solves your hard freezes, better report to the more specific
bug report
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20/+bug/109643
Thanks, I'll try this. But having read bug #109643 it seems they
suffered
A machine with AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ ran
perfectly stable for months with 7.04. Repeated crashes occurred as
soon as the upgrade to 7.10 completed with no other system changes.
Have then switched from nv X driver to nvidia and added maxcpus=1 in an
attempt to workaround.
This is really frustrating.
I have an Inspiron 1501 with AMD Sempron 3500+ 1G ram and an ATI Xpress
1150 256MB HyperMemory video card.
I did a fresh install of gutsy in late december. It worked okay at
first, but after a week, the system began to crash. Sadly, it seems like
the crashes are
Just an update - not strictly true to say No freezes, but freezes are
much less frequent now without Adobe flash player.
It is still incredibly frustrating that this bug was reported here in
October, the 64-bit forum still has dozens of people moaning DAILY about
it, and the Importance is still
I compiled kernel 2.6.24-rc5 (vanilla) manually about few weeks ago and haven't
had any problems since. What I've noticed after the update is that now I'm
getting all these messages about npviewer.bin (=nspluginwrapper) segfaulting.
And that's something that did not happen using the stock
Bob Kline wrote:
I wish that were true. I tried switching to the 32-bit
Gutsy on my AMD64 and Firefox still froze pretty regularly.
Hi Bob, can you please be very specific. If Firefox was the only
program affected and the rest of the desktop kept working then your
problems aren't the ones this
Hi fisuk, I'd guess your nspluginwrapper segfaults are due to it running
against a kernel that's different from what it can cope with. That's a
side-effect of running with a later, hand-installed, kernel as opposed
to a repository one from Ubuntu. It's because of these hard-to-predict
After reading some of the recent comments in the 64-bit forum I've tried
changing the flash player. I uninstalled the nonfree player, and had no
freezes with Firefox or at any other time. Then I added gnash, and am
still not getting freezes, with 1.2GB RAM.
My freezes were classic complete
It seems Ubuntu 32 bit has not the same freeze crash lockup problem.
I wish that were true. I tried switching to the 32-bit Gutsy on my
AMD64 and Firefox still froze pretty regularly. I was able to make the
freezes go away by ripping out Flash support, which isn't an acceptable
solution, as it
I replaced my Ubuntu Gutsy AMD64 bit system for the Ubuntu Gutsy i386 almost 1
month ago. Its working perfectly. Virtualbox, games, java, flash etc, etc.
Perfect. This computer is running almost all of the time.
When I was using the Ubuntu 64 bit I had so many crashes...
It seems Ubuntu 32 bit
As an added piece of information, my 64-bit Gutsy was running without
any sign of the freeze, with ATI R300 card and the 8.37.6 fglrx driver,
on an AMD 3200+ single-core chip. No compiz, no xgl.
Then I increased my RAM from 2 x 256MB to 256MB + 1GB, and the freezes
started - random time, no
update:
I followed one of the links from the forums I gave before:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=512059
I installed Envy as helper software to install the most recent NVidia
driver for my videocard (version 169.07).
And good news I had only one Freeze in 6-8 hours yesterday! And
Found some links that migh't be helpfull for some of us. Please report
your solutions here!
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=585714(thread with 144 replies!)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125(thread with 820 replies!)
Ooh see, we're not alone :-(
--
gutsy amd64
I think I'm seeing something similar, ever since upgrading to Gutsy.
Athlon64 X2 running 32-bit Ubuntu Server (so no X, NVIDIA drivers, etc)
With 2.6.22-14-server after a few hours it locks up. It's as if all disk
activity stops - any task that tries to access a disk will hang. No
error messages
Some additional info.
Today it is CPU1 using 100% capacity when locking, CPU2 almost no activity.
Till now always 1 Core that is 100% while locked.
Surfing launchpad I found a refference to bug:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/109643
Difference is that I can work after some time of waiting
hello all,
I'm having much the same issue here... at some random interval (from 20 min to
a few hours) the computer freezes entirely, with no mouse or keyboard
responsiveness. None of the programs are unresponsive (ie. grey) when this
happens, and CPU and memory loads during these lockups are
I upgraded from 7.04 to 7.10 on laptop HP. Didn't have problems in 7.04
but have some now.
I have short lockups of the screen (x-server). I can move the mouse but
no reaction on mouseclicks. No response from hitting keyboard (caps
lock). The magic SysRq works, did not test ctrlaltbackspace
Since upgrading my ancient Gateway 6400 server to Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy),
the system has experienced a number of random lockups. I have been
working on trying to resolve the problem for a solid week with limited
success.
My Gateway 6400 server hardware is as follows:
* 2x 1GHz Intel Pentium III
Surprised this didn't have a package specified. The immediate suspect,
especially following Keith's comment, is the kernel. Let's hope someone
will visit asking us for the information that would help them.
** Changed in: linux-source-2.6.22 (Ubuntu)
Sourcepackagename: None = linux-source-2.6.22
** Changed in: linux-source-2.6.22 (Ubuntu)
Assignee: (unassigned) = Ubuntu Kernel Team (ubuntu-kernel-team)
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for
Also experiencing this problem since upgrading from 7.04 to 7.10.
Machine was fine under 7.04. Now, with no hardware changes, lock-ups
occur during activity anywhere from between 30 minutes to a day.
Sometimes the SysRq key doesn't work, other times it does. Seems worse
at times of high
Further data on the HW used are:
AMD Athlon XP 3000+ (socket 462), SiS741 Northbrifge, SiS 963L
Southbridge, last BIOS v2.60, OS/2 keyb and mice, no overclock.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member
Same thing here, I don't have any nvidia card, just a intel graphic
integrated, it happens at anytime, with any program. please fix this,
why it says incomplete?? Andreas Troschka has gave you a lot
information. is happening with any kind of hardware!!!
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
Especially when talking about amd 64 and nvidia series 7 cards bug 145112 seems
the same as described here.
I've just installed the new 169.04 beta from nvidia and, so far, no lockups.
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification
It happens the same to me. I have a NVIDIA Geforce 7300 and a AMD
Athlon 64 X2 4200+. GNOME freezes many times and the GNOME panel behaves
very unstably (some items don't work after some time and I can only
restart the OS).
It seems that I can work a little more time with GNOME if I disable the
My System;
ASUS M2N SLI Mobo with Nforce 570 Chipset
AMD 64X2 3800 CPU
1GB corsair DDR2
Western Digital SATA HDD
Nvidia 7300 LE
I believe the hardware I listed is part of the problem with the latest drivers.
I removed all of the nvidia-glx-new drivers from my system and all kernel
sources and or
Following up from my previous post.
I installed Envy last night and used it to firstly remove the Nvidia
drivers and then to reinstall them.
Reinstalling the latest drivers made no difference at all, however
reinstalling the 96.43.01 drivers makes the system behave much better.
My system had
I have a similar issues, Gusty will lock up randomly, but I'm able to
move the mouse but can't click on anything, no keyboard activity either.
I'm running
Gusty 64bit 7.10 Upgraded from 7.04
CPU: AMD64 x2 3800+
M/Board: Asus M2N
1Gb Ram.
Video: Nvidia 6600 Silent (Asus)
Using Nvidia Restricted
I'm experiencing the same lock-ups.
Always when FireFox 2.0.0.8 is active, and by active i mean it is currently
getting data from a site or when the page is being scrolled with scroll bars.
I experience lock-ups irrespective of NTFS-3g being loaded or not.
AMD64 X2 4200
4Gb RAM
ASUS A8N-SLI
I am having very specific problems with lockups and these are easily
reproducible on my machine.
To save space, here is a link to my earlier posts
http://forum.ntfs-3g.org/viewtopic.php?t=692
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug
as well as loads of users having this problem in the above thread, i
found another thread with many other users with this trouble here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=585714
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification
I had the same problem and think it has something to do with the sata-modules
of the kernel. I've switched to the 2.6.23.1 vanilla kernel after this bug
destroyed parts of my filesystem. So please fix that, I guess people won't be
happy if they find out that a buggy kernel messed up firefox and
saying that though i've tried using nv in xorg.conf instead of nvidia,
or nvidia-glx whatever. just putting nv, and i still get the occasional
freeze, although it does seem to be a bit less frequent...
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this
ah ok. well i have a 7200 nvidia card and a dual core yeah, so could
well be that bug...
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the bug contact for Ubuntu.
--
ubuntu-bugs
I had a 6x series card and have the same troubles i was forced to
switch to winxp since i was unable to work with that problem
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu
Bugs, which is the
what graphics card do you have?
if you have a 7 series card and a dual core CPU it may be Bug #145112
** Changed in: ubuntu
Status: New = Incomplete
--
gutsy amd64 freeze crash lockup
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/15
You received this bug notification because you are a member of
89 matches
Mail list logo
