Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
Hi Markus, Do they need to install -0ubuntu2 and THEN -0ubuntu3? I don't know how Fedora does, but you always have the fallback option to download the full package. The server always has to provide full packages to allow new installations. It would be logical for a from-version property to be included in the system. If there is a version from x to y and a version from y to z. and is is installed, then install xy and then yz. Alternitivly, if there is a package x to z. Just one update. All these things are being talked about in the debian binary diff packages discussions. Regards, Martin Owens -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
Mackenzie Morgan wrote: I would like to know how they handle situations where the person hasn't updated in 3 weeks and the package has been updated in the meantime. Say, for example: -0ubuntu1 is currently installed -0ubuntu3 is available to install Do they need to install -0ubuntu2 and THEN -0ubuntu3? if you have a simple name scheme then apt could look for foo-0ubuntu3_upfrom-0ubuntu1 if its not found then apt falls back to using foo-0ubuntu3 then it would be up to the repository admin to decide what packages were kept. it might make sense to have a diff against the previous version, and diff against the original release version (for people who just installed from CD) looking at opensuse's repo http://download.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/update/11.0/rpm/x86_64/ it looks like they only have the delta to the previous version. mac os system updates come it 2 versions. one that updates from the previous minor version (10.4.3 to 10.4.4) and one that will update from any previous (from any 10.4.x) sam -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
If you just want to disable certain large packages, could you do some sort of pinning arrangement on them? You should be able to configure apt so that it (for example) prefers an older version of OOo to an updated one, but likes a security fix better still. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PinningHowto for one of the many guides about this. If this works, you might want to consider auto-generating such a list with a bit of Perl that grabs large files in /var/cache/apt/archives/. Oh, and fill in the survey: http://pileofstuff.org/ubuntu-survey/ :) - Andrew -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 01.02.2009 um 21:43 schrieb Mackenzie Morgan: I would like to know how they handle situations where the person hasn't updated in 3 weeks and the package has been updated in the meantime. Say, for example: -0ubuntu1 is currently installed -0ubuntu3 is available to install Do they need to install -0ubuntu2 and THEN -0ubuntu3? I don't know how Fedora does, but you always have the fallback option to download the full package. The server always has to provide full packages to allow new installations. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkmG1MkACgkQm7ux1ZKeoqaDJgCdFU3aDR7610NtQBdP/xwYpGEZ 0X8AmweOgwQALZbXh+CN/PdJRCs4BZiO =Rnq6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
Am 31.01.2009 um 15:09 schrieb Davyd McColl: I don't appreciate a 78mb download every other day because one config item in the kernel config has been changed or tweaked. I think what you are really asking for are incremental packages. Additional to full packages, each server would supply a package-diff which would allow to upgrade a given package to the next version. This isn't exactly trivial (you'd have to un-archive and re-archive packages to get meaningful diffs, it has to be binary safe and allow to remove files), but I've read about this idea on this list before. Perhaps you can find this spot and start working out something like a concept or even mockup code. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
Isn't Fedora working on something like this right now?? Only downloading the pieces that were updated? If yes, It would help to look at what they are doing. Markus Hitter wrote: Am 31.01.2009 um 15:09 schrieb Davyd McColl: I don't appreciate a 78mb download every other day because one config item in the kernel config has been changed or tweaked. I think what you are really asking for are incremental packages. Additional to full packages, each server would supply a package-diff which would allow to upgrade a given package to the next version. This isn't exactly trivial (you'd have to un-archive and re-archive packages to get meaningful diffs, it has to be binary safe and allow to remove files), but I've read about this idea on this list before. Perhaps you can find this spot and start working out something like a concept or even mockup code. MarKus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
On Sun, 2009-02-01 at 13:38 -0600, nergar wrote: Isn't Fedora working on something like this right now?? Only downloading the pieces that were updated? If yes, It would help to look at what they are doing. I would like to know how they handle situations where the person hasn't updated in 3 weeks and the package has been updated in the meantime. Say, for example: -0ubuntu1 is currently installed -0ubuntu3 is available to install Do they need to install -0ubuntu2 and THEN -0ubuntu3? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Mackenzie Morgan maco...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to know how they handle situations where the person hasn't updated in 3 weeks and the package has been updated in the meantime. Dunno if they do it like this, but I could imagine a system where the updates are personalized. So if you need a jump between 7 versions, it will be generated for you and then cached for other people. The cache could be limited for budget reasons of course, which would limit the amount of 'behind the times' people that would still receive an inremental update. Remco -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
On Saturday 31 January 2009 13:16:25 Mackenzie Morgan wrote: If you want to avoid those sorts of updates and only get the security ones, you can disable the updates repository and just use security. That'd result in quite a lot of the updates being eliminated. There are also changelogs available in the update window. If the bug in question doesn't affect you, you can uncheck the update. Neither of those options are really satisfactory: If I were to follow the first step, then I wouldn't get feature / minor-bugfix updates for ALL packages, not just the ones that are a little large. And if I follow the second, then I'm nagged every day about the larger packages that I haven't updated -- not to mention that I don't always bother to read all of the changelogs when I get my pretty-much daily update notice -- there are often 10-30 packages in that list! I don't mind spending the bandwidth on an update -- the issue is apparent bandwidth wastage for something which is a very minor update. Even if the update applied to me, it's quite hefty to get said update at 70mb download for the tweak of one options in .config. Instead of being just another moo in the wilderness, I will, as someone else on this mailing list suggested, give it some thought myself (: -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Truth doesn't cease to be just because you don't agree with it. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
It sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how feasible it would be. I know at one point there was also work going on with debdiffs, but I haven't heard anything on that in a long time. At the very least, this is definitely an area that needs to be looked at, maybe at the Jaunty+1 UDS? Evan -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
Another possibility that I just recalled was that of using lzma compression instead of gzip for the packages. Again, it was discussed a while ago and I haven't heard anything since. Did anything ever come of that? -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Thoughts for assisting those with limited bandwidth
On Saturday 31 January 2009 09:09:04 Davyd McColl wrote: Here it is: whilst I totally appreciate all the hard work that goes into patching and maintaining the current release version of large packages (like the kernel, openoffice.org, or even just warsow, which has a large data component), I don't appreciate a 78mb download every other day because one config item in the kernel config has been changed or tweaked. If you want to avoid those sorts of updates and only get the security ones, you can disable the updates repository and just use security. That'd result in quite a lot of the updates being eliminated. There are also changelogs available in the update window. If the bug in question doesn't affect you, you can uncheck the update. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
