Il giorno mar, 31/10/2006 alle 21.06 +0100, Carlos Perelló Marín ha scritto: > Hi,
Hi! > Well, initially, Rosetta was designed to use teams in a really different > way we are using them atm. The concept of an Ubuntu translation team as > we have atm is just a QA team. That means that, only the members of that > team would be able to change translations for Ubuntu and any other > member would add suggestions but they wouldn't change anything. > > The problems I think that produced current situation are: > > - Our reviewing tools are reduced or unimplemented. > - Our UI is not stating anytime that those teams are supposed to be QA > teams. > - Our documentation is not saying anything about the QA concept either. > > > I want to improve this situation and, with our current usage of Rosetta, > I know that people needs the concept of 'team' to know the list of > persons that are translated for a given distribution/project/product and > language. > > There are several solutions in my mind: > > - Create two teams, ubuntu-l10n-XX (current ones) and ubuntu-l10n-XX-QA > and give control over Ubuntu translations to the QA teams and thus, all > members of current teams will lose their rights to modify translations > directly, they will add suggestions as any other non member would be > able to do. I think this would be nice for big teams, more than 30-40 translators, so they will get at least 10 QA guys, but for small team, 10-20 translators, they will get maybe 5 QA guys with a lot of work to do on different translations (it's not easy to translate a software you don't know or at least use). Or we would have the same problem: giving people with poor technical skill QA control to help translate, in order to have the system translated. > - Create two teams too, but modify our permission system so we only > accept suggestions from current ubuntu-l10n-XX teams so you need to join > that team to be able to add suggestions. The QA teams are the only ones > that will be able to change translations. I don't really get it... it looks similar to the above to me... > > = Translation Teams = > > > > The basic starting point is that a central part of the Ubuntu > > philosophy[1] is that software should be available to all in their local > > language. > > > > [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/philosophy > > > > In order to achieve this, Ubuntu has given a lot of authority (and > > responsibility) to the various translation teams that exist in > > Launchpad[2]: these teams are responsible for what the operating system > > looks like, because the translations which they enter in Rosetta will > > eventually go into the operating system. > > > > [2] https://launchpad.net/people/?name=ubuntu-l10n&searchfor=teamsonly > > > > This is a lot of responsibility for the translation teams. It is clear > > that randomly accepting any new member to a team can result in bad > > translations. It seems that in the case of the Dutch team it has had > > really bad consequences. I refuse to believe that this problem doesn't > > exist elsewhere. For example, the Ubuntu French translation team has 250 > > members (and 1 administrator to approve/disprove new candidates!!), the > > German team 86, the Brazilian team 78, etc. It's difficult to imagine > > that these members have all been through some kind of quality assurance. > > Agreed. Agree, but I think it depends also on how Administrators handle this. > > Upstream translators on the other hand _do_ go through rigorous quality > > assurance. Translations are uploaded to (e.g. GNOME) CVS if the > > translator is already well known for good quality translation, or > > alternatively if the individual translation is checked first. For the italian upstream team (I'm part of it) it works like this: - I ask if the package I want to translate is free and then I start to translate it - When I'm done, I send the po to the ML for revision by all translators - I apply the changes - Then I send the po for CVS uplaod to the italian administrator, who does it (or you can go directly with the developers) I only know two intalian people with CVS rights that aren't developers! > > = Rosetta = > > > > There are lots of ways in which Rosetta can and should help this QA > > process, in my opinion. They are all fairly well known bugs, I think. > > But they are important ones. > > > > The first is technical. It is not nearly as easy to check a proposed > > member's translations as it should be. This is a oft-cited bug in > > Rosetta. It should be possible to go to a person's profile, and view > > each suggestion that person has made for a translation. At the moment, > > it is only possible to view which template the person has contributed > > to, and then you have to go through all the untranslated strings for > > that template, and look for the person's name. Not very convenient. > > Hmm, We are preparing that page to link with pofiles instead of just > potemplates but I guess we could prepare something like what you > describe. > > Filed as https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/69563 That would be great! It's time consuming going through the entire translation only to search for a couple of strings! > > The second is technical too. You can't search a package for a particular > > string, which means that if you see a bad translation, it's harder to > > fix. Worse than that, once a translation is committed, there is no > > obvious way of seeing who committed the translation, so people who are > > not following guidelines cannot be approached to discuss the problem. > > > > The search feature is already in danilo's queue and will be started once > he finish native OO.org support. I'm waiting for it! :) Sometimes, when I find errors, I download the po, correct it and then upload it! > > The fourth is purely social. The main reason that translation groups > > don't do QA is that they are not aware of this need. Given that Ubuntu > > has given the translator groups this immense responsibility, it is their > > duty (and by implication, that of Rosetta/Launchpad) to make them aware > > of it. New teams and team owners/administrators should be made aware of > > the importance of assuring quality translations in the distribution. The > > other reason that Rosetta needs to take on this social task is that > > Rosetta really does make translation very very easy indeed, which rocks. > > However, it's vital to ensure that "easy" doesn't equate to "sloppy". > > I think this part would be solved by the Ubuntu Translation Coordinator > position in Ubuntu. Once the designated person starts handling those > tasks we would see what could we do in Rosetta to make his/her live > easier. I think also some guidelines (on the wiki or directly inside Launchpad) would be very useful here. > > My conclusion is that Rosetta helps to go half way towards fulfilling > > the promise in Ubuntu's philosophy of making the operating system > > available to users in their local language. However, now for the hard > > bit: making the operating system available to users in their local > > language and _professional_ at the same time. In order to do this, > > translation teams need to put quality assurance in place and Rosetta > > needs to help them to do this. > > Agreed. We, Rosetta team, is trying to reach that point, it takes a lot > of time to implement everything needed, but I think we are every day in > a better position to reach that goal. > > Thanks for your input. Thanks for the great work you're doing in Rosetta/Launchpad! Ciao! -- Milo Casagrande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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