[Resending a message I sent during the Unicode List downtime]
-Original Message-
From: Marco Cimarosti
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 7:03 PM
To: 'Eric Muller'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: New version of TR29:
Eric Muller wrote:
Your definition of LatinVowel is problematic. Is Y
[Resending a message I sent during the Unicode List downtime]
-Original Message-
From: Marco Cimarosti
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 12:55 PM
To: 'Philipp Reichmuth'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: New version of TR29:
Philipp Reichmuth wrote:
MC Consonants [j] and [w] have the
This mail message is in UTF-8, as the mail header indicated.
I'm sorry to post a similar question again. Last time when I questioned about
ideograph look-up someone gave me a link to something like CJK indexer. Would this
kind man give me the link again? I forgot it. Is there any website
Marco Cimarosti scripsit:
The issue is making the error window as narrow as possible. My assumption is
that is common words such as c', d', j', l', n', qu', s', t'
or v' are more common than edge cases like prud'homme.
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second
John Cowan wrote:
Marco Cimarosti scripsit:
The issue is making the error window as narrow as possible.
My assumption is
that is common words such as c', d', j', l', n',
qu', s', t'
or v' are more common than edge cases like prud'homme.
How about this heuristic:
Break after an
How about I'll or it's.
Regards,
Addison
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of John Cowan
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:40 AM
To: Marco Cimarosti
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: Re: FW: New version of TR29:
Marco Cimarosti
Semitic transliteration practice, if I recall correctly.
RM It is common enough in transcribing Hebrew and Arabic.
A single character a with a half-ring to the upper right or on top
of it? What would it stand for in Arabic transliteration, as opposed
to separate characters a and half-ring?
JC Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
JC word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later.
JC This neatly handles (I think) all the English
we'll, we've, it's split. must've or should've don't split.
Isn't, don't and doesn't don't, either. Are these
You can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unicode/ to search the archives.
Dave
- Original Message -
From: Zhang Weiwu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: again cjk character look-up
This mail message is in UTF-8, as the mail
John Cowan jcowan at reutershealth dot com wrote:
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later. This neatly
handles (I think) all the English, Italian, and Esperanto cases, and
a good
On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 07:39:38AM -0400, John Cowan wrote:
Marco Cimarosti scripsit:
The issue is making the error window as narrow as possible. My assumption is
that is common words such as c', d', j', l', n', qu', s', t'
or v' are more common than edge cases like prud'homme.
How
On Saturday, August 17, 2002, at 06:34 PM, Zhang Weiwu wrote:
This time I'm looking for a ideograph with ½Ç on the left and Ñò on the right. It is read 'xi¨¨' in Pinyin. This character doesn't seem exist in CJK and CJK Ext A.
You mean U+89E7 (Ón)? BTW, the Mandarin readings that Unihan has
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later. This neatly
handles (I think) all the English, Italian, and Esperanto cases, and
a good many of
Philipp Reichmuth wrote:
MC O'zbek would not split, because the apostrophe is not
followed by a,
MC e, i, o, u or y.
G'iyosaddin would (sorry for the silly word, it's the middle name of
a medieval poet, but it's the first thing that came into my mind, and
g' is not such a rare
Philipp Reichmuth wrote:
JC Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third
letter in the
JC word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later.
JC This neatly handles (I think) all the English
we'll, we've, it's split. must've or should've don't split.
Isn't, don't and
Andrew C. West wrote:
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later. This neatly
handles (I think) all the English, Italian, and Esperanto
Andrew C. West andrewcwest at alumni dot princeton dot edu wrote:
Does not work with K'ang-hsi or Ch'ien-lung, or apostrophes used in
IPA and other systems of phonetic transcription.
Seems to me that one apostrophe is not enough - how about a NON-
BREAKING APOSTROPHE for cases like
The deadline is here... Find attached the last version of my proposal for a
better handling of apostrophe in DUTR#29.
All the criticism I received was very valuable, and most of it has been
included in the proposal, in a form or another.
Thanks.
_ Marco
Proposal to accommodate French
G'iyosaddin would (sorry for the silly word, it's the middle name of
a medieval poet, but it's the first thing that came into my mind, and
g' is not such a rare combination in Uzbek that this is the only
case).
MC It depends on what you mean by sensibly.
You can't expect the result to be
Doug Ewell scripsit:
As enticing as it sounds, disunifying it would not solve the problem; it
would simply move it from the text boundaries category to the legacy
data conversion category.
Somewhat off the topic:
What I've never understood is why Unicode is so adamant that the ' of
English
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
It has no sound, but neither does Romance quot;hquot;; both exist as a marker of
etymology.
But in fact the apostrophe may have a sound in dialectal English, where it is used to
represent a
medial or final glotal stop (e.g. a drin' a wa'er for a
At 10:10 -0700 2002-08-20, Andrew C. West wrote:
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
It has no sound, but neither does Romance quot;hquot;; both
exist as a marker of etymology.
But in fact the apostrophe may have a sound in dialectal English,
where it is used to represent a medial or
Just FYI (I have not been following this thread): officially in the
bibliographic community, there is NO apostrophe in Wade-Giles K'ang-hsi, or
in Korean aspirated characters; it's an ayn (02BBAYN / MODIFIER LETTER
TURNED COMMA ). The apostrophe is only used between syllables. Of course,
At 12:46 -0400 2002-08-20, John Cowan wrote:
Doug Ewell scripsit:
As enticing as it sounds, disunifying it would not solve the problem; it
would simply move it from the text boundaries category to the legacy
data conversion category.
Somewhat off the topic:
What I've never understood is
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Andrew C. West wrote:
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
It has no sound, but neither does Romance quot;hquot;; both exist as a
marker of
etymology.
But in fact the apostrophe may have a sound in dialectal English, where it is
used to represent a
Arsa Doug Ewell:
John Cowan jcowan at reutershealth dot com wrote:
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later. This neatly
handles (I think) all the English, Italian, and Esperanto
John Cowan wrote:
What I've never understood is why Unicode is so adamant that the ' of
English words is a punctuation mark, not a letter; why when disambiguating
U+0027, English apostrophe is to be mapped to U+2019 and not U+02BC.
It's true that historically isn't is derived from is not,
Michael Everson scripsit:
U+02BC will have a place in the alphabet and affect sorting in
languages like Hawai'ian. U+2019 doesn't. The former is used as a
letter; the latter is used as a mark of punctuation.
IIRC, practical San orthography ignores click letters for sorting purposes
though
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Michael Everson wrote:
At 10:10 -0700 2002-08-20, Andrew C. West wrote:
On Tue, 20 August 2002, John Cowan wrote:
It has no sound, but neither does Romance quot;hquot;; both
exist as a marker of etymology.
But in fact the apostrophe may have a sound in dialectal
Arsa Doug Ewell:
John Cowan jcowan at reutershealth dot com wrote:
How about this heuristic:
Break after an apostrophe that is the second or third letter in the
word. Do not break after apostrophes that come later. This neatly
handles (I think) all the English, Italian, and Esperanto
ps.
In re the 'ornamental' use of the apostrophe to anglicize Irish surnames, I
believe that practice to be unique to English (viz., inserting an
apostrophe where nothing is omitted, and it does not function as a
punctuation mark).
Am I wrong, or is what I call the English practice actually
At 13:58 -0400 2002-08-20, James E. Agenbroad wrote:
There is also fo'c'sle, the abridged version of forecastle. :-)
There are no glottal stops there.
--
Michael Everson *** Everson Typography *** http://www.evertype.com
John, Marco,
The practice of writing anglicized Irish names in English orthography
is rather interesting. Original Ó Briain is written O'Brien where
the apostrophe both mimics the original acute, and incidentally
functions as a kind of hyphen, showing that the two parts of the name
are
At 20:07 +0100 2002-08-20, Marion Gunn wrote:
In re the 'ornamental' use of the apostrophe to anglicize Irish surnames, I
believe that practice to be unique to English (viz., inserting an
apostrophe where nothing is omitted, and it does not function as a
punctuation mark).
It's not ornamental
Then there are two uses of apostrophies in quoting: within secondary quotation
marks
Urk. I meant within quotation marks as secondary quotation marks.
As another datapoint the following details the use of the apostrophe in Finnish
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/kielikello/merkit.html#heittomerkki
It's in Finnish :-) so allow me to summarize:
(1) if consonant gradation (the change or even elision) of consonants would cause
two same vowels
Michael Everson scripsit:
[T]he OED notes that the prefix has been variously written: Macdonald,
MacDonald, McDonald, Msupc/supDonald, M'Donald. I can't say I've
seen the last one in any text more recent than the 18th century, but
it is certainly indicative of the use of apostrophe as a
Some notes about Japanese transcription:
$B$J(B - na
$B$K(B - ni
$B$L(B - nu
$B$M(B - ne
$B$N(B - no
$B$s$"(B - n'a
$B$s$$(B - n'i
$B$s$&(B - n'u
$B$s$((B - n'e
$B$s$*(B - n'o
I'm not sure if this could cause any problems, though.
Stefan
The summary is very short: I got *no* answer to my query.
Perhaps some of you may suggest a more responsive forum?
Best regards
Janusz
On 12 Aug 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Janusz S. Bie) wrote:
I am interested in world-wide use of cover sheet standards. I would
like to trace down the first
From: Janusz S. Bie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The summary is very short: I got *no* answer to my query.
Well, it *is* a question that really has nothing to do with Unicode, a
character encoding standard.
Perhaps some of you may suggest a more responsive forum?
Well, something on topic would likely
John D. Burger john at mitre dot org wrote:
Thus, I would have an issue with the argument that the apostrophe is
merely part of the spelling of the word hill's. There is no such
word.
I think the folks who make Science Diet dog and cat food might disagree:
http://www.hillspet.com
More
On 08/20/2002 08:32:53 PM John D. Burger wrote:
Thus, I would have an issue
with the argument that the apostrophe is merely part of the spelling of
the word hill's. There is no such word.
There certainly is such a wordform; you have used it in your illustrative
sentence. It is a phonological
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