At 05:09 PM 7/8/03 -0400, you wrote:
Even if this were done, I wonder if most software would understand U+2007
or other non-breaking spaces as spaces for the purpose of
full-justification or right-justification and hide them when they would
otherwise appear at column right position.
Such usage
I do the same thing: I compress all blanks with an invariable and
automatic searchreplace... before actually formatting
Me too. Only a small minority of the papers I edit come with two spaces
anyway, so it's less work to replace the double with single spaces. As well,
the single space looks
Don't call me Mr. Roberts is my name.
Don't call me Mr. Roberts is my name.
In European English Mr is generally not followed by a full stop,
because the abbreviation contains the first and last letter of the
word. (In Finland that would be M:r.)
Ummm...? No.
Abbreviations in
From: John Burger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unicode already defines with character properties those punctuations
that terminate sentences. Why would you need to recognize sequences of
two spaces as meaning an end of sentence???
Ambiguity remains. My
Tex Texin posted on use of U+2007 FIGURE SPACE for digit-grouping space:
Right. I was only thinking that if U+202F wasn't available it might be a
better choice than NBSP.
I checked some common fonts which confirmed what I believed, that digits
are normally equal in width to the lowercase letter
Jim Allan wrote:
U+202F which is always a wide space would be generally less
desireable than ordinary non-breaking U+00A0.
Didn't you confuse U+2007 and U+202F here? U+202F is the *NARROW* NBSP.
--
François Yergeau
François Yergeau posted:
Jim Allan wrote:
U+202F which is always a wide space would be generally less
desireable than ordinary non-breaking U+00A0.
Didn't you confuse U+2007 and U+202F here? U+202F is the *NARROW* NBSP.
Yes. I certainly did pasted in the wrong Unicode value. It is U+2007
which
On Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:13 PM, Jim Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
François Yergeau posted:
Jim Allan wrote:
U+202F which is always a wide space would be generally less
desireable than ordinary non-breaking U+00A0.
Didn't you confuse U+2007 and U+202F here? U+202F is the
Philippe Verdy posted:
And U+2007 is certainly a better space to use after an sentence-ending
dot or exclamation/interrogation point, for typesetting usage or in
HTML and XML documents when a large space is intended by the author.
Not quite.
Remember, U+2007 is a non-breaking space.
Use at the
Stefan,
Thanks for your comments.
My sense is that number format varies somewhat depending on the application or
vertical industry, so it can be hard to say what the most popular usage is in
any regional market. I try to ignore the question of which format is right for
each market and just point
On Monday, July 07, 2003 8:41 AM, Tex Texin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stefan,
Thanks for your comments.
Philippe,
Thanks for your comments. I may add some of the notes to the page.
However, I want to question your recommendation of U+2009 as I believe
that is a breaking space. Perhaps you
On 07/07/2003 04:15, Philippe Verdy wrote:
The list separator in French is preferably the semicolon, rather than a comma
(which must then have a space):
= 123thin space;standard space456
The thin space is here also encoded accroding to the character encoding
constraints and fonts (here also less
Philippe Verdy posted:
I can't make a recommandation on which space figure to use.
Ideally, it must just be *less wide* than a digit and *not justified*, it must
be *unbreakable*. The ideal space to use depends on the available fonts,
and in practive most texts are coded with NBSP (sometimes a
On Monday, July 07, 2003 2:04 PM, Peter Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 07/07/2003 04:15, Philippe Verdy wrote:
The list separator in French is preferably the semicolon, rather
than a comma (which must then have a space):
= 123thin space;standard space456
The thin space is here also
Philippe Verdy scripsit:
Some other conventions use in English is the double-space after a
sentence-ending dot: this convention does not exist in French, and I do
think that it exist in English as a way to represent a large (cadratin
minimum width) space after this dot.
It's a
At Mon, 7 Jul 2003 17:12:25 +0100, Michael Everson wrote:
At 11:49 -0400 2003-07-07, John Cowan wrote:
It's a typewriter-based convention, and is suitable for monowidth
fonts only.
It's a beastly practice held over from the time when it was useful
(that is, when typesetters set the type
From: John Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It's a typewriter-based convention, and is suitable for monowidth fonts
only. The space after a sentence-ending full stop in justified
contexts
is no bigger than any other space, in general.
Really? TeX seems to stretch this space more than ordinary
At 13:29 -0400 2003-07-07, Frank da Cruz wrote:
Nobody is springing to the defense of this so I'll only say that
it's a time-honored practice and we shouldn't be so quick to
disparage it, lest we be disparaged several years hence for the
things we do :-)
It's rotten, and when I typeset books
Michael Everson scripsit:
In the world of plain text, two spaces after a sentence-ending
period, exclamation mark, question mark, or other mark is actually
rather handy to distinguish sentence enders from the same marks used
in other ways, esp. periods in abbreviations.
Fie! Fie!
John Burger scripsit:
Really? TeX seems to stretch this space more than ordinary
inter-word spaces in justified text - there are even special commands
to tell TeX when a period really is (or isn't) end-of-sentence. I had
always assumed that this came from established type-setting
From: Frank da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In the world of plain text, two spaces after a sentence-ending period,
exclamation mark, question mark, or other mark is actually rather handy to
distinguish sentence enders from the same marks used in other ways,
esp. periods in abbreviations. This
Unicode already defines with character properties those punctuations that
terminate sentences. Why would you need to recognize sequences of two spaces
as meaning an end of sentence??? This would be wrong to select sentenced in
a preformated plain-text, even in English...
Because it has
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 13:29 -0400 2003-07-07, Frank da Cruz wrote:
Nobody is springing to the defense of this so I'll only say that
it's a time-honored practice and we shouldn't be so quick to
disparage it, lest we be disparaged several years hence for the
things we
At 14:27 -0400 2003-07-07, Frank da Cruz wrote:
EMACS aside, it's still an interesting question why -- in English at
least -- it was customary thoughout the 20th century to put two
spaces after a period
when typing. I expect it must have been an aesthetic decision. What else
could it have
On Monday, July 07, 2003 8:27 PM, Frank da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I vaguely recall seeing this same discussion play out some years ago.
EMACS aside, it's still an interesting question why -- in English at
least -- it was customary thoughout the 20th century to put two
spaces after a
Jim, Why do you leave out U+2007 figure space?
Jim Allan wrote:
Philippe Verdy posted:
I can't make a recommandation on which space figure to use.
Ideally, it must just be *less wide* than a digit and *not justified*, it must
be *unbreakable*. The ideal space to use depends on the
Michael Everson scripsit:
The typing habit was designed to assist typesetters in reading the
manuscript as they were setting type.
Either this says that double-spacing after a sentence improves the readability
of monospaced documents, or I misunderstand you entirely. After all, typists
are
At 15:12 -0400 2003-07-07, John Cowan wrote:
Michael Everson scripsit:
The typing habit was designed to assist typesetters in reading the
manuscript as they were setting type.
Either this says that double-spacing after a sentence improves the readability
of monospaced documents, or I
Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:41:21 +0100 Michael Everson wrote:
At 14:27 -0400 2003-07-07, Frank da Cruz wrote:
EMACS aside, it's still an interesting question why -- in English at
least -- it was customary thoughout the 20th century to put two spaces
after a period when typing. I expect it must
From Robert Bringhurst's Elements of Typographic Style, pp. 28-20:
Use a single word space between sentences. In the nineteenth
century, which was a dark and inflationary age in typography and type
design, many compositors were encouraged to stuff extra space between
sentences. Generations of
Tex Texin posted on my indication that only U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE and
U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE are available in Unicode for a
digit-grouping space in numbers:
Jim, Why do you leave out U+2007 figure space?
U+2007 FIGURE SPACE is also a non-breaking space.
But Philip Verdy claimed (and I
Michael Everson posted:
Typists were taught to do it generally, but the origin of the
practice is to assist the typesetters.
No so. It predates typewriters and one can see this style in the
typography in many books of the Victorian era and the early decades of
the twentieth century.
From
On Monday, July 07, 2003 10:03 PM, Frank da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here, by the way, is a the formal definition of a sentence in EMACS:
http://www.gnu.org/manual/emacs-lisp-intro/html_node/sentence-end.html
A great deal of other text processing software uses similar rules.
It is worth
It is worth noting that what is described here is the default running mode of
Emacs for the English locale. There are a lot more modes on Emacs to
handle various languages (including programming languages).
Of course. But without two spaces you have greater ambiguity, at least in
English: In
On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 4:08 PM, Frank da Cruz wrote:
Of course. But without two spaces you have greater ambiguity, at
least in
English: In Mr. Roberts, what is the function of the period?
Don't call me Mr. Roberts is my name.
Don't call me Mr. Roberts is my name.
IIRC the English
At 18:08 -0400 2003-07-07, Frank da Cruz wrote:
It is worth noting that what is described here is the default
running mode of
Emacs for the English locale. There are a lot more modes on Emacs to
handle various languages (including programming languages).
Of course. But without two spaces you
On Tuesday, July 08, 2003 12:08 AM, Frank da Cruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It is worth noting that what is described here is the default
running mode of Emacs for the English locale. There are a lot more
modes on Emacs to handle various languages (including programming
languages).
Of
At 16:22 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 4:38 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
At 16:22 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
Well, to be frank, I'm sure that the Welsh, Scots, and Manx probably
do, too. (Did I leave anybody out *this*
At 01:10 +0200 2003-07-08, Philippe Verdy wrote:
I forgot to ask something: is there a Unicode codepoint assigned to
the abbreviation dot (a narrower dot with less margins on left and
right than the standard dot), as it seems to be used in some
typesetted texts to differentiate it from the
At 17:00 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
Well, to be frank, I'm sure that the Welsh, Scots, and Manx probably
do, too. (Did I leave anybody out *this* time?)
The Cornish, of course. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
John H. Jenkins wrote:
On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 4:38 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
At 16:22 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
Well, to be frank, I'm sure that the Welsh, Scots, and Manx probably
do, too.
Right. I was only thinking that if U+202F wasn't available it might be a
better choice than NBSP.
tex
Jim Allan wrote:
Tex Texin posted on my indication that only U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE and
U+202F NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE are available in Unicode for a
digit-grouping space in numbers:
Jim,
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