references, maybe you will find g11n or l10n somewhere.
Dave
- Original Message -
From: Barry Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rick McGowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
At 08:35 AM 10
On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 12:33:58PM -0700, Barry Caplan wrote:
How did you find these? I searched on i18n and sorted by date and could not go past
the 1000th or so record
Go to Advanced search, Select Return messages posted between
and use sensible dates (such as between 1981-1991)
--
I concur with the stories from the other DEC folks and certainly remember Jan
Scherpenhuizen and S12N.
Some idea of a lower date for common use of I18N are books that talk about
internationalization but do not use the abbreviation. It is not used in the July 1993
X/Open Internationalisation
Hi Tim.
Good to hear from you and thanks for this.
I agree, I went thru some of the same books
.
In fact, books written by people close to software internationalization
probably rejected documenting i18n in their formal publications, which
is why I think the first reference I have is Soft landing
I was asked about the origin of these acronyms. Does anyone know who
created these or where they were first used?
tex
--
-
Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Xen Master
, October 10, 2002 2:02 AM
To: NE Localization SIG; Unicoders
Subject: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
I was asked about the origin of these acronyms. Does anyone know who
created these or where they were first used?
tex
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:18 AM
To: Winkler, Arnold F
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
From: Winkler, Arnold F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sometime around 1991 in a IEEE P1003.1 (POSIX) meeting
From: Winkler, Arnold F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sometime around 1991 in a IEEE P1003.1 (POSIX) meeting, Gary Miller (IBM)
was writing on the blackboard. After having spelled out
Internationalization a few times, he first abbreviated it to I--n and a bit
later (obviously after counting the letters
On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 07:14:57AM -0400, Winkler, Arnold F wrote:
Tex,
Here is my recollection:
Sometime around 1991 in a IEEE P1003.1 (POSIX) meeting, Gary Miller (IBM)
was writing on the blackboard. After having spelled out
Internationalization a few times, he first abbreviated it to
On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 07:14:57AM -0400, Winkler, Arnold F wrote:
Tex,
Here is my recollection:
Sometime around 1991 in a IEEE P1003.1 (POSIX) meeting, Gary Miller (IBM)
was writing on the blackboard. After having spelled out
Internationalization a few times, he first abbreviated it to
In spite of Arnold's anecdote, I think that I18n was in use long before
1991. I first started using it myself in perhaps 1987, having picked it up
from colleagues at Digital Equipment Corporation (remember *them*?); I have
no idea where they got the term, though. However, I first encountered
The earliest reference I can find to i18n in my old e-mail trail is the
following e-mail to the sun!unicode mail list by Glenn Wright. This was
Oct 5, 1989. By that time, the term was definitely current, as Mr. Hiura
suggests.
Rick
-
From upheisei!attunix!sun!glennw
Thanks Hideki!
I went thru my i18n books to scan for mentions. The earliest mention I
could find for i18n (the abbreviation) was 1992, in Soft Landing in
Japan.
It seems like 1993 some books mention it, and 94 and thereafter it is
consistently mentioned.
The term internationalization seems
There is a link with the story on the fron page of www.i18n.com
Barry Caplan
Publisher, www.i18n.com
At 02:02 AM 10/10/2002 -0400, Tex Texin wrote:
I was asked about the origin of these acronyms. Does anyone know who
created these or where they were first used?
tex
--
Radovan Garabik wrote:
Google is your friend :-)
i18n is first mentioned in USENET on 30 nov 1989,
Cute, I didn't imagine Google archives went all that way back!
BTW, the first mention of Unicode on Usenet predates it by eight days:
Subject: Re: ASCII for national characters
Newsgroups:
PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
Thanks Hideki!
I went thru my i18n books to scan for mentions. The earliest mention I could find for
i18n (the abbreviation) was 1992, in Soft Landing in Japan. It seems like 1993 some
books mention it, and 94 and thereafter
Barry Caplan wrote:
There is a link with the story on the fron page of www.i18n.com
Nice story, similar to the one with Gary Miller. It seems like we have three stories
of origin now (with mid-'80s DEC).
The i18n.com version does not date the MIT meeting, does it?
markus
Well, the first occurence of i18n in Google's USENET archive seems
to be http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5570339%40hpfcdc.HP.COM
from Nov 30, 1989.
l10n occurs first in
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1990Aug30.115608.3729%40tsa.co.uk
from Aug 30, 1990.
--tml
From: Markus Scherer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barry Caplan wrote:
There is a link with the story on the fron page of www.i18n.com
Nice story, similar to the one with Gary Miller. It seems like we
have three stories of origin now (with mid-'80s DEC). The i18n.com
version does not date the MIT
At 08:35 AM 10/10/2002 -0700, Rick wrote:
The earliest reference I can find to i18n in my old e-mail trail is the
following e-mail to the sun!unicode mail list by Glenn Wright. This was
Oct 5, 1989. By that time, the term was definitely current, as Mr. Hiura
suggests.
I registered i18n.com
How did you find these? I searched on i18n and sorted by date and could not go past
the 1000th or so record
Barry
At 09:52 PM 10/10/2002 +0300, Tor Lillqvist wrote:
Well, the first occurence of i18n in Google's USENET archive seems
to be
At 06:35 PM 10/10/2002 +0200, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Radovan Garabik wrote:
Google is your friend :-)
i18n is first mentioned in USENET on 30 nov 1989,
Here is a mention from 1989-12-02 11:24:11 PST only 3 days later:
From the books I looked at this morning, the term localization was
very much in use in the late 80s by most vendors.
It seems internationalization came later, and was more vendor specific
until 92/93.
Then came i18n.
then came l10n, g11n, e13n (europeanization), j10n (japanization)...
Barry
-
From: Tex Texin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Barry Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Rick McGowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 13:14
Subject: Re: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
From the books I looked at this morning, the term localization was
very
” ◄
- Original Message -
From: Tex Texin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Barry Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Rick McGowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 13:14
Subject: Re: Historians- what is origin of i18n, l10n, etc.?
From the books I looked at this morning
At 07:34 PM 10/10/2002 -0400, Tex Texin wrote:
Mark Davis wrote:
We used the term internationalization in Apple in late 85. We might have
also used it earlier than that, I don't remember.
W0e n3r u2d t1e g1d-a3l, g3y a1d o5e a10n i18n, h5r!
Mark,
Given the center of work in the i18n and
At 07:34 PM 10/10/2002 -0400, Tex Texin wrote:
Mark,
that's good to know. I never worked with Apple and so have no Apple doc
in my collection.
However, the W0e below is a violation of the encoding and is a security
risk. I think the algorithm calls for the shortest string, so people
can't sneak
W0e n3r u2d t1e g1d-a3l, g3y a1d o5e a10n i18n, h5r!
What I don't understand, since these a10n's are in such
widespread use among programmers and character encoders,
is why they don't use h9l, as in i12n, lan, and gbn?
--K1n
BTW, these aan's are not only o5e, they are also o4e, but
This is a fair question. Why is jargon useful? It serves to define a group and a
concept. the best jargon is memorable, short in name, easy to write, catchy in sound
to the ear, and universally able to be written. It helps a lot if the term is not
already overridden by another group.
i18n and
At 05:40 PM 10-10-02, Barry Caplan wrote:
i18n and l10n both meet all of these criteria, as do lan and yahoo!
and google. In this respect, jargon can become a brand.
In the case of yahoo! and google, these are brands that have become jargon,
not the other way 'round.
John Hudson
Tiro
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