On 09/09/2002 02:17:55 PM Barry Caplan wrote:
Mora sounds like jargon for a more specialized situation, unless I am
missing
something ...
No, mora is a technical term used in phonological analysis. Japanese is
a prime example of a language for which morae are key structural elements
in the
On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 05:11:24AM +0900, Dan Kogai wrote:
As all English users know (with certain degrees of pain), you can't
tell how you pronounce a given letter until you see the whole word or
even the whole sentence. In that sense I doubt how relevant
to categorize alphabets between
Peter Constable wrote:
On 09/09/2002 02:43:52 AM Marco Cimarosti wrote:
1. List Vowels - probably not vowels:
U+212B # (Å) ANGSTROM SIGN
Given that this is canonically equivalent with a-ring, does
it make sense to consider one a vowel but the other not?
I stand corrected.
Somehow, I
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 08:19:30PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 09/09/2002 02:43:52 AM Marco Cimarosti wrote:
1. List Vowels - probably not vowels:
U+212B # (Å) ANGSTROM SIGN
Given that this is canonically equivalent with a-ring, does it make sense
to consider one a vowel but
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Off-hand, it seems that in English y mostly* is [j] if in initial position,
otherwise it's either [i] or [ai]. So it's either one consonant, or one or
two
vowels...
From a philological point of view, initial y in Modern English originally derives
from a palatal
g
I wrote:
Peter Constable wrote:
On 09/09/2002 02:43:52 AM Marco Cimarosti wrote:
1. List Vowels - probably not vowels:
U+212B # (Å) ANGSTROM SIGN
Given that this is canonically equivalent with a-ring, does
it make sense to consider one a vowel but the other not?
I stand
On 09/10/2002 01:10:19 AM Radovan Garabik wrote:
ANGSTROM SIGN is a symbol. It is not meant to be pronounced,
and if it is, it is pronounced something like IMHO /ɔŋʃtrom/
Now, that is neither vowel nor consonant, but a whole word :-)
You might think so, but things aren't so simple. By analogy,
Mark Davis wrote:
I need to get a list of Latin characters that are generally considered
vowels. I partitioned the characters as in the list below, but there
are lots of oddball ones for which I can only guess (LATIN CAPITAL
LETTER OU? LATIN LETTER WYNN?...).
At 11:43 +0200 2002-09-09, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Anyway, here are a few comments:
1. List Vowels - probably not vowels:
U+00AA # (¬) FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR
U+00BA # (¬) MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR
U+2071 # (ű) SUPERSCRIPT LATIN SMALL LETTER I
Of course these are
At 00:32 -0400 2002-09-09, John Cowan wrote:
Mark Davis scripsit:
If someone familiar with any of the weirder creatures in the Unicode
Latin Zoo could quickly scan the list over to see if there are any
errors, I'd appreciate it.
The following are not vowels.
The so-called OI is really a
On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 11:43:52AM +0200, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Mark Davis wrote:
I need to get a list of Latin characters that are generally considered
vowels. I partitioned the characters as in the list below, but there
are lots of oddball ones for which I can only guess (LATIN CAPITAL
Radovan Garabik scripsit:
A bookcase full of old (~100 years) hungarian books has just got into
my posession. I noticed that J is there often used as a vowel
at the beginning of word before consonant (where modern hungarian has I).
However, before vowels, J stands for consonant /j/
Radovan Garabik wrote:
Originally, of course, latin had only capital letters
Well... This reminds me of people who say that language XYZ only has one
gender. :-)
I mean: if there was just one set of letters, how do you say they were
capitals or not? Are Arabic letters capitals?
Seriously
-
From: Marco Cimarosti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Mark Davis' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Unicode
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Unicore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 02:43
Subject: RE: Latin vowels?
Mark Davis wrote:
I need to get a list of Latin characters that are generally
considered
vowels. I
De: "Marco Cimarosti" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mark Davis wrote: I
need to get a list of Latin characters that are generally considered
vowels. I partitioned the characters as in the list below, but
there are lots of oddball ones for which I can only guess (LATIN
CAPITAL LETTER OU? LATIN
];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 06:30
Subject: RE: Latin vowels?
Radovan Garabik wrote:
Originally, of course, latin had only capital letters
Well... This reminds me of people who say that language XYZ only has
one
gender. :-)
I mean: if there was just one set of letters
, September 09, 2002 04:04
Subject: Re: Latin vowels?
At 00:32 -0400 2002-09-09, John Cowan wrote:
Mark Davis scripsit:
If someone familiar with any of the weirder creatures in the
Unicode
Latin Zoo could quickly scan the list over to see if there are
any
errors, I'd appreciate
Mark Davis wrote:
Ah, now I understand the 'guilty' part.
OK, now I feel relieved...
The UTC decided that rather than change the base rules in #29, it
would provide a prominent example of how those rules would be tailored
for French and Italian, citing those rules in that section. So for
Radovan Garabik garabik at melkor dot dnp dot fmph dot uniba dot sk
understands:
Conclusion? It is pointless to talk about vowels and consonants,
if you are speaking about a _writing_ system (especially disregarding
the language it concerns).
Vowels and consonants make sense when speaking
Patrick Andries wrote:
- W and Y with typical vowel diacritics are almost certainly vowels.
I insist on the w^ in Chichewa which is, I believe, a consonant : a
bilabial fricative.
That's why I put it in my group 4: ambiguous [...] probably vowels. But I
guess that Chichewas could see a
Patrick Andries scripsit:
I insist on the w^ in Chichewa which is, I believe, a consonant : a =
bilabial fricative.
In Welsh, it's the vowel [u:]. So which wins, Welsh or Chichewa?
--
John Cowanhttp://www.ccil.org/~cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please leave your values|
glides, and GOK what else. Of course, Mark was only differentiating
between vowels and non-vowels, but that may not make things much
easier; I still wouldn't know where to put English y.
Off-hand, it seems that in English y mostly* is [j] if in initial position,
otherwise it's either [i] or
On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Mark Davis wrote:
4. List Nonvowels - ambiguous letters that are probably vowels:
U+0059 # (Y) LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y
U+0079 # (y) LATIN SMALL LETTER Y
I would consider all these as vowels, although I know there is much room for
errors:
And isn't W a vowel in English too? As in the word few?
And even Websters 9th Collegiate (the closest dictionary I can pick up with one
hand) lists cwm and crwth -- which have w as their only vowel.
Phwl
[EMAIL PROTECTED] scripsit:
Off-hand, it seems that in English y mostly* is [j] if in initial position,
otherwise it's either [i] or [ai]. So it's either one consonant, or one or two
vowels...
English vocalic y is only [i] if it's final, with few exceptions
(machine, e.g.). Otherwise it
Hi Phil.
At 13:38 -0400 2002-09-09, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And isn't W a vowel in English too? As in the word few?
The thing is, vowels and consonants are spoken. Orthographies
(alphabets and other kinds) may represent those with one-to-one,
one-to-many, many-to-one, or many-to-many
On Tuesday, Sep 10, 2002, at 01:56 Asia/Tokyo,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
glides, and GOK what else. Of course, Mark was only differentiating
between vowels and non-vowels, but that may not make things much
easier; I still wouldn't know where to put English y.
Off-hand, it seems that in
Dan Kogai scripsit:
And how about an 'i' for Linux? A vowel ? or a diphthong?
Only if you say Lie-nux, in which case millions of Linn-ux and Lee-nux
fans will do the nasty on you! :-)
[Da][n] [Ko][ga][i], 5 Japanese Syllables, 3 English Syllables
5 moras, 3 syllables, actually.
--
You
At 04:37 PM 9/9/2002 -0400, John Cowan wrote:
[Da][n] [Ko][ga][i], 5 Japanese Syllables, 3 English Syllables
5 moras, 3 syllables, actually.
A new vocabulary word for me, so I looked it up...
mo·ra
n. pl. mo·rae or mo·ras
The minimal unit of metrical time in quantitative verse, equal to
Barry Caplan scripsit:
I think that I shall never see
a Kogai lovely as a tree
In English, strict-meter poems depend on the number of syllables, where
syllable is a very hard-to-define concept except that we know one when
we see it, with some special cases like flower, which can be one
On 09/09/2002 02:43:52 AM Marco Cimarosti wrote:
1. List Vowels - probably not vowels:
U+212B # (Å) ANGSTROM SIGN
Given that this is canonically equivalent with a-ring, does it make sense
to consider one a vowel but the other not?
- Peter
Mark Davis scripsit:
LATIN LETTER WYNN?...).
Oh yes, WYNN is a borrowing of U+16B9 used in Old English writing instead of
W (almost always replaced by W in modern transcription), so you have
that one correct.
--
Knowledge studies others / Wisdom is self-known; John Cowan
Muscle masters
Mark Davis scripsit:
If someone familiar with any of the weirder creatures in the Unicode
Latin Zoo could quickly scan the list over to see if there are any
errors, I'd appreciate it.
The following are not vowels.
The so-called OI is really a velar fricative; the OU-ligature is
historically
Mark Davis mark at macchiato dot com wrote:
I need to get a list of Latin characters that are generally considered
vowels. I partitioned the characters as in the list below, but there
are lots of oddball ones for which I can only guess (LATIN CAPITAL
LETTER OU? LATIN LETTER WYNN?...).
I
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