was broken the last time I checked.
Well, but the roadmap for Plane 2 is *really* simple. You just fill
it with 40,000+ ideographs from the bottom up.
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At the same time, it would be nice to have a Unicodally correct way
of referring to planes 1 and 2, since there is an important boundary
between them.
And of course, the *proper* way to refer to plane 14 is to pretend it
doesn't exist at all. :-)
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characters recently standardized
(e.g., JIS X 0213, HK GCCS), fills in the nooks and crannies from CNS
11643-1992, and adds what's needed to fully cover the Hanyu Da Zidian
and KangXi. Maybe they'll start on the Shuowen next and then move
back to pre-Zhou stuff. :-)
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question. We'd need to get a solid survey of
the oracle bone characters and their modern counterparts. One problem
is that a significant percentage of the former aren't identified (or
even identifiable) with modern characters.
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At 2:33 PM -0800 7/14/00, Tex Texin wrote:
And do we know which locale we are debating the pronounciation of?
Michael is in Ireland, not sure where John hangs his hat.
Salt Lake City, where people go fishing in the cricks. We seem to
have a thing for short i's hereabouts.
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On Wednesday, July 19, 2000, at 12:49 PM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
BTW, did anyone get the smileys right at the first sight?
They looked OK to me.
between different locales results in different
stroke counts.
2) We only use one glyph for the character even so.
Oh, and
3) The RS index is produced by computer, so unexpected data can have
unexpected results.
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at this point.
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At 12:09 PM -0800 7/28/00, Curtis Clark wrote:
At the other extreme, the unique, undeciphered Phaistos disk script
was turned down for inclusion.
Actually, to be strict about it, it wasn't turned down. Its status
is "unapproved."
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(and not Japanese) will give you
the Chinese forms.
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disastrous when done once that makes everyone determined not to do it
again.
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sed to talking about "imaginary" and
"irrational" numbers, too. (My thirteen-year-old refuses to believe that imaginary
numbers are "real." *sigh*)
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Because of persistent problems with the charts.unicode.org server, we have moved the
PDF files containing the charts for Unicode 3.0 to http://www.unicode.org/charts/.
The Web charts and Unihan database remain at the same URLs. Please update your
bookmarks appropriately.
, Arabic, Indic scripts),
but it *still* has problems with the metrics for Chinese. Some of my
ad hoc "scripts" work and some don't, which is better than was the
case for Word '98.
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URL, http://www.unicode.org/charts/.
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e
any reality at all behind it, or is it just noise and slander?
Considering the fact that they say that CJK is done with a
pictographic writing system, they call ß a "beta," and they know
nothing about surrogates (just after a surface reading), I'd say they
don't know what they're t
Subject says it all
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The IRG is unifying in plane 2, as well.
Nobody in the IRG has suggested that we abandon unification for plane
2.
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and Polish accents? Or Fraktur and Italic and Roman styles of Latin?
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and ATSUI require special tables in a font for it to work
correctly with complex scripts. Since the special tables are
different for the two technologies, in order for a font to work with
both systems it needs both sets of extra tables.
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list.
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standardization on this planet.
I believe that recent evidence shows conclusively that the Phaistos
disk is a written in a syllabic script that requires 1,234,567 unique
precomposed symbols. :-)
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it. Any
non-fictional script ditto.
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is *NOT* the official site. They are not in any way
associated with Unicode. The official Unihan database is available
only from unicode.org.
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he'd have cared).
OK, as the resident Asimov nut I have to weigh in.
Sorry, the story is *not* by the Good Doctor. Although he was very
fun of the feghoot and wrote several, this isn't one of them. And
yes, he was *very* sensitive about the spelling and pronunciation of
his name.
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(Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging) and MLTE (Multi-Lingual
Text Edit) APIs. It's also available to anyone doing Cocoa
programming.
As for OT support, we're investigating how this might be done on the
Mac at the system level.
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, but there really are people out
there who do want to use it on their computers.
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in Extension B are required for JIS X 0213
support, which is going to be a sine qua non in Japan within a few
years. There was a push a little while ago to put these characters
on the BMP for precisely this reason, but it was opposed both within
the UTC and WG2 and then abandoned.
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John H
it. Whenever I need to type Deseret, I use
an IM that converts to Latin to Deseret on the fly.
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subscribe in the subject line.
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of the chemical elements, until
recently the word for computer). It really isn't possible to
convert between simplified and traditional characters without doing a
lexical analysis.
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At 1:34 PM -0500 5/2/01, Ayers, Mike wrote:
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2.pdf appears to be missing. Am I
looking in the right place?
Unfortunately, it isn't available yet. Unicode doesn't have a Plane
2 font, although we're actively working to get one.
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John H. Jenkins
an East Asian
language, hanzi would be best. (I'm tempted to say that Honjih
would be best, but I'll be a good boy and resist.)
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it as if it were French.
Even when one writes Cantonese and not Mandarin, most of the
characters used are the same. Many common words are completely
different, of course, but the bulk of the vocabulary goes across
without change.
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John H. Jenkins
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look-up by
component and pinyin. The current alpha version has full Ext A and B
support. Look for a new release soon.
Let me echo that. Wenlin is a marvelous reference program for anyone
interested in CJK.
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and not
the hexagrams, although I know why it worked out that way. Richard,
are they used much *outside* of the Yi? If so, I think it's
reasonable to add them.
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it, the only signs
which are sufficiently well understood that they would meet criterion
(1) are already in Unicode in the form of their modern forms. I
could be wrong and am starting to research the matter myself.
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John H. Jenkins
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the characters?
FWIW, there is a small but non-zero Shavian user community, and a
number of fonts are available, some of them very pretty.
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John H. Jenkins
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century written using it.
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position for a character in this kind of an index, sad
to say.
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At 6:05 PM -0700 7/8/01, Richard Cook wrote:
John H. Jenkins wrote:
It is on occasion something of an art figuring out the correct
radical/stroke position for a character in this kind of an index, sad
to say.
I'd say, when 2 radicals are possible, put it under both. When 3, well
... you
, for that
matter).
Meanwhile, there are all kinds of handy indexing schemes for Unihan,
and it would be nice to provide the data to use them; the main
problem is that Unicode's resources to generate data like that are
extremely limited. Donations, meanwhile, are welcome.
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John H. Jenkins
been willing to sell data to the Unicode Consortium, but we
really don't have any kind of budget for this sort of thing. All the
data in the Unihan database has been donated, none of it bought.
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John H. Jenkins
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is
that the only set of data we have right now that covers everything is
the radical-stroke data. The next problem is my finding the time to
produce PDFs of the alternate indices.
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. The way it's done now is definitely bad, bad, bad.
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At 9:29 AM -0700 7/9/01, James Kass wrote:
John H. Jenkins wrote:
The main problem is
that the only set of data we have right now that covers everything is
the radical-stroke data. The next problem is my finding the time to
produce PDFs of the alternate indices.
Has the UNIHAN.TXT
that the font that Unicode uses must
be coordinated with the IRG work. MS doesn't have that restriction.
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Unicode, as well, since all text on Cocoa is Unicode.
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are supported
from 8.5 onwards in ATSUI.
John Jenkins at Apple can probably provide more precise information.
He may or may not want to burden you with knowledge of the esoteric
.dfont format.
He does not want to.
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for instances where non-BMP characters may be necessary.
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for them in plain text, and
definitely *not* to use distinct code points to represent them.
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John H. Jenkins
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At 5:28 PM +0100 10/2/01, Michael Everson wrote:
The CSUR is maintained to support scripts of various kinds. Some of
those (Shavian, Deseret, Tengwar, Cirth) are expected to graduate
into Unicode.
And one of them already has!
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John H. Jenkins
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but doesn't work on X. Yet.
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that way.
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a copy of his
font.
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burden on the user? If
anything, plain text is becoming an increasingly rare beast except in
source code.
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John H. Jenkins
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Pinyin, which leaves us to puzzle out how to prounce
qun and xue, while still mispronouncing cun and peng. In my eyes,
it's a tie.
Yeah, well, they're both based on the wrong dialect, anyway.
Barbaric Mandarin-speaking northerners. :-)
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John H. Jenkins
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doesn't do typography.
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John H. Jenkins
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of 40,000
characters involved, we cannot guarantee that they are all perfectly
accurate. Meanwhile, the *official* definition of the character is its
mappings and the *informal* definition is its glyph. That's as much as
we can do.
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John H. Jenkins
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Just to swerve the topic of conversation here, in the E for effort
department, what about a statue to the Emperor Claudius for at least
trying to add letters to the Latin alphabet? And does anybody know what
the letters *were*?
==
John H. Jenkins
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?
--
Kevin Bracey, Principal Software Engineer
Pace Micro Technology plc Tel: +44 (0) 1223 518566
645 Newmarket RoadFax: +44 (0) 1223 518526
Cambridge, CB5 8PB, United KingdomWWW: http://www.pace.co.uk/
==
John H. Jenkins
[EMAIL
. On the other hand, there *is* just the one
document (or board game), so there's only so much one can do.
And it remains the only encoding proposal sent to the UTC which
contains the entire known corpus of writing in the script as a part
of the proposal.
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John H. Jenkins
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at
http://developer.apple.com/fonts/Tools/index.html to put astral cmaps
into their fonts.
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John H. Jenkins
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for a Global E-conomy) (TM)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
25 N. Washington St.
Rochester, NY 14614-1110
USA
Phone: +1 716.454.4210
Fax: +1 716.454.4213
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Wednesday, January 2, 2002, at 08:38 AM, Suzanne M. Topping wrote:
Does anyone know if this is a known problem?
It's a known problem and is being worked on.
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John H. Jenkins
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in it.
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John H. Jenkins
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of
an organization like Unicode, simply hasn't been the done.
(Maybe an ambitious university student with an MA thesis to write
?)
==
John H. Jenkins
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of 32 scripts would have no choice but to hijack one
of the existing codes and reuse it for their own purposes.
In this case, there's clearly an Inuit system for the Mac out there which
has hijacked the Ethiopic script code in the absence of any other that
could be used.
==
John H. Jenkins
.
Actually, no. Both KangXi and the Cihai list U+8721 (蜡) as a traditional
character in its own right, although I assume it's rare as I can't find it
in my other dictionaries.
==
John H. Jenkins
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, and future compatibility
ideographs will be excluded from use in IDN. (Actually, you could save
yourself some grief right off by excluding Han radicals and all
compatibility ideographs.)
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 11:44 AM, Thomas Chan wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2002, John H. Jenkins wrote:
However, this is already a problem in Unicode. shuowen.org will have
to
register both U+8AAAU+6587.org and U+8AACU+6587.org; Jingwa,
Inc., will need both U+4E3CU+86D9 and U+4E95U
On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 12:29 PM, John Cowan wrote:
John H. Jenkins wrote:
{TC1, SC1, SC2, TC2, TC3, SC3} constitute a Han simplification
class (HSC), and are all the same when appearing in IDNs.
Correct?
Oui.
The caveat is that this must be understood to be a first-order
it in text, despite the fact that it's in all our
fonts).
Anyone who *does* use it in text is free to use U+F8FF, as we do, to map
it to Unicode.
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John H. Jenkins
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in the font,
parse it, and process it appropriately using public functions. The one
piece still missing is automatic support for OT layout data in the system.
==
John H. Jenkins
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fequency measurement for the character based on analysis
of Chinese
# USENET postings
==
John H. Jenkins
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Y'know, I must confess to not following this thread at all. Yes, it is
impossible to tell from the glyphs on the screen what sequence of Unicode
characters was used to generate them. Just *how*, exactly, is this a
security problem?
==
John H. Jenkins
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Microsoft Word or
Adobe Acrobat use, do I refuse to sign documents they create? Is that the
idea? I mean, good heavens, I don't even know *precisely* what bytes Mail.
app is going to use for this email. Should I refuse to sign it?
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 07:44 PM, Yung-Fong Tang wrote:
Deborah:
How about MacOS and Mac OS Apps
No. Apple doesn't use anything in the OS/2 table except the embedding
permission field.
==
John H. Jenkins
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to know enough to take advantage of
that, too.
I have on my docket drafting a UTR on the subject with a list of
precomposed glyphs which would be desirable in fonts and available to end
users.
==
John H. Jenkins
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an fj ligature. If I'm not mistaken. most
of Adobe's Pro fonts do, too.
==
John H. Jenkins
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to which it supports Unicode.
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John H. Jenkins
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of characters in Ciao-Ciao's poetry or
the Manyoshu which are missing? If so, you've got a couple of weeks to
propose them before the door closes on new characters for Han Extension C.
==
John H. Jenkins
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missing for modern
non-Mandarin dialects of Chinese; some of the ones Unicode is proposing
for CJK Extension C are from Cantonese dictionaries.
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John H. Jenkins
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cannot be
represented by Unicode 3.2.
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John H. Jenkins
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relieved to find
there is no Unidict !)
Rather more like they should add positronic because Isaac Asimov used
it.
It's in the OED. Asimov gets credit for both that and robotics.
But that's only because other people picked up the word and ran with it.
==
John H. Jenkins
[EMAIL
for a IDEOGRAPHIC
TABOO VARIATION INDICATOR for precisely this reason. Sorry.
==
John H. Jenkins
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to. You'd need something
like Wenlin to actually draw your character in text.
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John H. Jenkins
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of people (size left vague) who want to interchange data in
the script, or if there is a historic body of literature in the script.
==
John H. Jenkins
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.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 02:15 PM, Dan Kogai wrote:
On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 01:33 , John H. Jenkins wrote:
Of course, the correct solution to this is not to grouse about Unicode
(since it does better than any other character set around), but for JIS
to get an authoritative
.
In international context, it is technically impossible to properly
display Unicode characters.
There is no implementation exist.
While some implementations work in some localized context, local
character set serves better for the context.
Masataka Ohta
==
John H. Jenkins
[EMAIL
On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 08:19 AM, John Cowan wrote:
I am now developing a patch for Mozilla that causes it to display all
URLs in Fraktur fonts only.
No, no. Convert them into phonetics and write them in Deseret.
==
John H. Jenkins
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if at all possible.
Again, the typographic tradition in Japan is to write kanji with Japanese
glyphs *even* when Chinese is the language being written.
==
John H. Jenkins
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) cultural imperialism. Unfortunately, Ohta-san can still get
himself a hearing on a number of Internet-related committees.
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John H. Jenkins
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that they should be unified.
Surrogates were introduced because it was clear that we would ultimately
need more than 65536 code points to encode what people wanted to represent.
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John H. Jenkins
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), or do these character serve for a completely
different purpose? Does any font support the characters in this block?
Stefan
_
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
==
John H. Jenkins
but different
abstract shapes.
where can I find more detail reference document about them ?
The Unicode Standard, version 3.0, pp. 262-263.
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John H. Jenkins
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but none of which identified themselves as this number in particular.
U+0065. Except in rare cases for backwards compatibility with other
standards, Unicode does not include special characters for mathematical or
physical constants.
==
John H. Jenkins
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PGs, .PNGs, ...) for the additional characters you'd like to see admitted into Unicode.
I believe that the proposal form specifically requires a TrueType font, although not necessarily with the initial proposal. We can't use clipart pix in the standard.
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John H. Jenkins
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in Unicode.
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John H. Jenkins
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