in the
Supplemental Punctuation block where they can be used for many
scripts. There's a FORKED PARAGRAPHOS though and a REVERSED FORKED
PARAGRAPHOS though, which names may not be all that good if they can
be used in a bidirectional context.
Ken?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
, according
to the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, an international
Jewish human rights group.
=
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
or in a proposal.
The Unicode names are CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-534D and CJK UNIFIED
IDEOGRAPH-5350.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Standard are for anyone's use.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to for an issue like this.
There are no plans to remove the characters from fonts where there
is cultural context with Unicode mappings.
A font which has both of them is probably including them as the
paired Buddhist symbols.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 18:31 +0300 2003-12-14, Alexander Savenkov wrote:
References: [1] ISBN 5-85141-016-7, p. 38.
What is this and how does one find it? Amazon.ru? :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
shapes. I would like to
see some discussion about whether the properties those characters
have are suitable for use in other contexts.
Some things are really too evil to facilitate even in
a small way in a computer code.
The tilted Nazi swastika is a DIFFERENT character again.
--
Michael Everson
At 12:09 -0800 2003-12-15, Peter Kirk wrote:
Then let's hope that ISO 10646 doesn't decide to break its own rules
and change KOREAN to COREAN in character names e.g. U+321D.
Think what that would do to the Unicode stability policy - although
in fact only five names are affected.
It is
At 13:55 -0800 2003-12-15, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 15/12/2003 12:25, Michael Everson wrote:
At 12:09 -0800 2003-12-15, Peter Kirk wrote:
Then let's hope that ISO 10646 doesn't decide to break its own
rules and change KOREAN to COREAN in character names e.g.
U+321D. Think what that would do
status which integrates it more tightly within
France).
Other missing codes in ISO 3166 and in UN statistics are:
[snip]
If you have issues with the content of ISO 3166, Philippe, take them
up with ISO TC46. You can contact the secretariat in AFNOR.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
sound a bit like having to rely on enlightened statesmen,
doesn't it?
Better than if the whole thing were just left to the employees of
large companies, Doug. We have good checks and balances.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
because the author of the text did not want it to
be rendered with a superposed dot.
Texts which contain spelling errors. Or old IPA
texts using any number of ad-hoc IPA font
solutions. Those texts have to be transcoded to
proper Unicode at some stage. What you suggest is
Not Recommended.
--
Michael
and Japan standing with the US on such an issue. ;-)
We really must get the UK back into SC2 ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 13:00 +0100 2003-12-16, Stefan Persson wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
In Irish, it is INCORRECT to spell físeán
'video' with a DOTLESS I + COMBINING ACUTE. It
is a spelling error, and will fail in
spell-checking. The correct spelling is either
I + COMBINING ACUTE or precomposed I WITH ACUTE
At 04:36 -0800 2003-12-16, Peter Kirk wrote:
Seriously, can you remind us briefly what the situation is, why
there is no current UK representation?
I will answer this off-line.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Inglish which may exist a long
time from now. Currently those strings are required to be
changeless for stability. So we do not change them, as long as that
requirement remains, which the vendors say it is.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:48 +0100 2003-12-16, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
At 11:03 +0100 2003-12-16, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wrong here: I have found occurences of dotless lowercase i, used
instead of soft-dotted lowercase i, as base letters
'. Brontosaurus
is a perfectly good name and may still be used even though it is
dispreferred.
Brontosaurus was good enough for me when I was five, and it's good
enough for me today. Hmpf. Dispreferred me elbow.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
dotless i are as different as t and thorn.
Well Outlook 2000 is unable to represent any e with ogonek and trema of your
example.
Get a better browser.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
they are not.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to the right of the
equals-sign; newer keyboards have this key to the
right of the apostrophe key.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. :-(
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. But the history of the word is obscure, and
evidence is wanting.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
that is the case for Irish keyboards.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
elaborate system of contextual forms).
I don't know what you are talking about.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 14:18 -0800 2003-12-21, Peter Kirk wrote:
So, KA is KA is KA is KA and BHA is BHA is BHA is BHA, and ALEF is
ALEF is ALEF is ALEF, except when it comes to comparing them and
collating them?
In the context which I was speaking, yes. The Indic KAs have a
one-to-one relationship, historically.
have to say that?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Grianstad faoi mhaise do chách! Happy Solstice to everyone!
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
at one stage in favour of Arabic
Extensions. I suppose that's in the archives somewhere, where some
future Historian of Unicode (hi there!) can find it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
on the Roadmap to the BMP along with some other Brahmic
scripts, and with Tibetan and Mongolian, as far as I recall.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
later this year to finalize things.
Regarding Samaritan, there is a group of modern users certainly. This
page http://www.orindalodge.org/kadoshsamaritan.php has a number of
interesting links on it. Masonic scholars apparently differentiate
between Hebrew and Samaritan.
--
Michael Everson
going to. :-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 08:51 -0800 2003-12-23, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 23/12/2003 06:22, Michael Everson wrote:
...
There are no RULES about where anything gets encoded. There are
guidelines. nevertheless, I have no problem with Aramaic being
encoded on the SMP. I'll move it there now. Happy Christmas. :-)
Thank you
are encoded, nothing makes you have to use them.
Please stop pouring oil on this.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
or not
unifying the bewildering array of early semitic writing systems,
That *is* something that is going to impact on what I have to do, and
I would really rather not be forced to give up doing other things to
deal with that. Which I am, even now.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
At 01:02 +0100 2003-12-24, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Michael Everson:
Perhaps it must be in any case, due to directionality issues.
If you have looked at those pages, you have seen that they were coded as a
cypher of Latin, but with no implied association with these letters. It just
allows using
At 15:51 -0800 2003-12-23, Peter Kirk wrote:
Agreed that the Samaritan shin is urgent for this reason.
This could be added in the ballot comments to the symbol set
currently under ballot. I would need a good scan of the character in
context and its bibliographical reference.
--
Michael Everson
At 01:40 +0100 2003-12-24, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
Of course, to echo the observation John Hudson made regarding the
Masonic Hebrew and Samaritan text, the text presented here
http://www.crowndiamond.org/cd/genesis.html shows that Palaeo-Hebrew
should obviously unified
in offlist
mail, but sometimes that's just my lot.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
unifies Palaeo-Hebrew and Phoenician.)
So, if you wish, your shin could be submitted when they are--Elaine
The Samaritan shin is an LTR clone of, um, the Samaritan shin used in
Western Biblical references.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 15:36 + 2003-12-24, Michael Everson wrote:
The Samaritan shin is an LTR clone of, um, the Samaritan shin used
in Western Biblical references.
Recte: The Samaritan shin is an LTR clone of, um, the Samaritan shin,
and is used in Western Biblical references.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
to know that you aren't prioritizing that either.
In the meantime, if you *do* have contact with experts in Samaritan,
could you inform Debbie Anderson of this. Samaritan is likely to be
actionable in the shorter term rather than the longer, and is clearly
a different script from Hebrew.
--
Michael
of them as General RTL Punctuation.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
We have encoded 70,000 of them.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
and development.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
marks that indicate the emotion or
dramatic interpretation to use in reading each verse.pretty
nifty!
Can you please send bibliographical references and/or samples to me
or to Debbie or both?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 00:36 -0500 2003-12-27, Dean Snyder wrote:
This document by Michael Everson is particularly revealing and in the end
damning to his whole attempt at disunification of the Northwest Semitic
script.
I am not interested in participating in this kind of discourse. This
is not Michael Everson vs
in plain
text; font markup is not sufficient.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Both s and long s are available for use if anyone wants to use them.
What's the problem?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 06:40 -0800 2003-12-29, Elaine Keown wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
And the mother of those scripts is Phoenician. She is *not* Hebrew.
The mother script is probably the southern Sinai or Wadi el-Hol
script, written in about 1,700 B.C.E. by Aramaeans who worked either
in the copper mines
; and with Azerbaijani we are
talking of a deliberate decision by a people, or at least its
government, to change scripts.
In Sanhedrin and Mishnaic text deliberate distinction is made between
Samaritan and Square Hebrew, as will be demonstrated in the Samaritan
proposal.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
At 10:08 -0800 2004-01-02, Joe Becker wrote:
French police officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said
errors in spelling and transcription of Arabic names played a role
in the mix-up.
Figures, doesn't it?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. After
stripping composable accents, which characters in the Latin blocks
only appeared after that date? Can I assume that both the Pan-Turkic
Latin orthography and the Pan-Nigerian alphabet postdate that?
No, you can't make assumptions like that.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
alphabet. It seems
that this was adopted followng the First Turkology Congress, held in
Baku in 1926, see
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/81_folder/81_articles/81_turkology_congress.html.
You will find Turkic letters in that alphabet which predate that congress.
--
Michael Everson
At 16:42 -0800 2004-01-02, D. Starner wrote:
Can I assume that both the Pan-Turkic
Latin orthography and the Pan-Nigerian alphabet postdate that?
No, you can't make assumptions like that.
Yes, I can. And I will if I have to.
Your question was an historical one.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
were a bit less than conclusive in that regard.
But it is not even roadmapped for Unicode.
Must you use such rhetoric?
It wasn't roadmapped because we had no comprehensive information on
it. Now we have more information, which is excellent.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 16:56 -0800 2004-01-02, D. Starner wrote:
Not safe unless you *know* exactly when a character was invented.
Not safe for what? I've come across six characters that weren't in
Unicode at all.
What are they?
You assumption wasn't safe given your question.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
on the names being perfect. That's different from
not using them at all.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
It looks a lot like what has been called the Agvan alphabet. See
http://www.evertype.com/alphabets/Agvan.jpg
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to
page one of the Unicode Standard and start over.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
a nice informative property and go through all of our known
mistakes and the maintenance after the initial pass should be minimal
I am sure that eventually such a thing will be implemented. But it
would be too early to do it now, I think. Things are still too
volatile.
--
Michael Everson
, your pretense at expertise just makes a
lot of people annoyed with you.
Perhaps Patrick Andries' French translation of the text of the
standard will be of assistance to you.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 23:23 +0100 2004-01-03, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The glyphs are not normative.
But if you want to insist more with your position, why not simply dropping
completely all glyphs from the Unicode standard?
Because they are informative.
--
Michael Everson
At 00:00 +0100 2004-01-04, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 22:37 +0100 2004-01-03, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Note that a fundamental property of character identity is its most common
classification as a vowel, consonnant, or semi-vowel.
That isn't true. The letter
At 23:40 +0100 2004-01-03, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 22:37 +0100 2004-01-03, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Note that a fundamental property of character identity is its most common
classification as a vowel, consonnant, or semi-vowel.
That isn't true
TONE SIX **is** the SOFT SIGN clone into Latin, and
should be used for Pan-Turkic. I've suggested, but perhaps not loudly
enough, that the reference glyph be modified to be more soft-sign
like.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. It will help if we can show a Zhuang text without the weird
serifs; I've had my eye out for a while.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:27 +0100 2004-01-05, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Why not then use the Latin ton six for all texts in that period, and allow
glyph variants to show the I with right hook glyph used in early Latin
Azeri?
Because that wouldn't be right.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
have seen the ordinary soft sign glyph used for Zhuang (but cannot
remember where, so I have to discover it again). I recognize that the
burden of proof is on me for this.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 19:23 +0100 2004-01-05, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 16:27 +0100 2004-01-05, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Why not then use the Latin ton six for all texts in that period, and
allow
glyph variants to show the I with right hook glyph used in early Latin
Azeri
Well, James, I think it would be A LOT better if we got some actual
documents from Zhuangland.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
was probably really identical to the soft sign because printers
would have used the same type wherever possible.
We agree! We agree! We agree!
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
N2694 http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2694
Proposal to encode two Bhutanese marks for Dzongkha in the UCS
Michael Everson and Chris Fynn
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
that they are also mandatory.
Ken and I hold the same view and have the same position. Things may
be mandatory and informative, or they may be mandatory and normative.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 12:48 -0700 2004-01-06, Tom Gewecke wrote:
MS Mac Office 2004 was announced at MacWorld SF today. Does anyone know
whether this update finally brings the Unicode capabilities of the WinXP
version to the Mac OS X world?
It would be really wonderful news if it were to do so.
--
Michael Everson
At 09:33 -0600 2004-01-14, David Perry wrote:
I am delighted to see a Unicode-native version of Office come out at
long last; it lays the foundation for future developments.
Hear, hear.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
and Devanagari-QWERTY and Arabic-QWERTY keyboards. If
it doesn't, there is something WRONG. If it does, and there are
display issues regarding *rendering* of Devanagari or Arabic, that is
a DIFFERENT issue, which Microsoft will address in due course, one
expects.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
It is not useful to continue this thread on both the Unicode and the
Cuneiform lists.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to which was that it should be left until all of
Samaritan is encoded.
We did notice, when we started working on Samaritan. Nobody thought
about the directionality issue at the time. D'oh!
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
preparing proposals based on the static,
sign-based model. Ken Whistler has gone to the trouble of rehearsing
the refutation of all of the points on the Cuneiform list.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
alphabets),
Really?
And did the Klingon Language Institute endorse that?
Yes. See http://www.evertype.com/standards/csur/klingon.html
The original encoding was made for some Linux implementation in 1995
or 1996 I suppose.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Anyone know how I can read a .mdb file? Please respond to me directly
and not on the list.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 14:53 +0100 2004-01-15, Chris Jacobs wrote:
WHY THEN DISTRIBUTES THE KLI SUCH A BLATANTLY UNCONFORMANT FONT?
yIjachQo'. vItlhob.
{{{:-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 18:06 +0100 2004-01-15, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Michael Everson scripsit:
yIjachQo'. vItlhob.
Demonstrating once again that the One True Script for Klingon is Latin.
Not really: look at how uppercase letters are used: case mapping, which is
quite safe
Standard. Enthusiasts use it decoratively; that's why it was
given a CSUR encodinng.
It's embarrassing to see someone going to such lengths to show what
an expert he is about this when he is just utterly wrong.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
that this is a plain separate script (as it
was the intent of Tolkien when he created the script).
Heaven help us.
Of course, the original orthography for Klingon
was Latin, as published in 1985 in Marc Okrand's
Klingon Dictionary.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
it produces?
Yes. Imagine.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
, including in use in direct
proximity with LTR letters, numbers and other symbols.
I have that, yes.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
own.
The old alphabetical order was
A B K D E F G H CH C'H I Y J L M N O P R S T U V W Z
Sometimes, as in Kervella's _Yezhadur bras ar brezhoneg_, GW was
separated out between G and H (where it would fall anyway).
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 22:11 +0100 2004-01-15, Philippe Verdy wrote:
The comment from Michael about the occurence of gW in Breton was wrong:
I said I had seen it in print, which was true, and I said that it was
rare, which is also true. It is not standard.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 00:25 +0100 2004-01-16, Philippe Verdy wrote:
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 22:11 +0100 2004-01-15, Philippe Verdy wrote:
The comment from Michael about the occurence of gW in Breton was wrong:
I said I had seen it in print, which was true, and I said that it was
rare, which
.
Apparently it has been forgotten that not two
hours ago Philippe made wildly incorrect claims
about Breton alphabetical order, which I
corrected.
I have lost my interest in discussing with you, Philippe. Adieu. Bonne chance.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
-samaritans.com/forum/display_message.asp?mid=388).
We had a response from someone there offline with whom we are
talking; but haven't heard from him again in a while. Another contact
is going to do some library digging for us in Berkeley.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 14:14 -0800 2004-01-16, Eric Muller wrote:
Breton is taught in public schools in France, including in bilingual
programs in elementary schools (about 50 schools in 2002). Look for
Div Yezh.
And Skol Diwan.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
the Everson departed from the organization which
rents that address from its ISP.
O sent va bro, ma divallet!:-)
Recte: O sent va bro, va diwallit!
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
DONE.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
against his will.
No, I don't. We have all tried to do so (Rick,
Ken, I, Karljürgen, and others, in copious
detail) and he is escalating rather than
listening. That is a waste of time, when the
architectural decisions for encoding Cuneiform
*have* been made.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
only known about it.
But Dean, when we said we're not interested in exploring this model
because we've already considered it and have rejected it in favour of
another one, why on earth did you not LISTEN to us and drop it then
and there?
Now would be a really good time to do so.
--
Michael
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