At 12:39 -0500 2004-01-19, Dean Snyder wrote:
Michael Everson wrote at 4:54 PM on Monday, January 19, 2004:
No, we do not need to rehearse the pros and cons of the dynamic
model for Cuneiform already. Abundant evidence for why it has not
been chosen has already been presented.
But NO ONE
.
No, it doesn't. We aren't going to use it to encode Cuneiform.
all of those are just neutral characters to which some sort of
behaviour is ascribed.
Which is all I'm asking for in cuneiform.
Well, stop. You aren't going to get it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
it be that in discussion with other experts, the idea
was refined, and that this does not imply that Everson was -- horrors
-- wrong?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
was not confused.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
http://www.evertype.com/scriptbib.html has been updated with some
pretty nice things, for those of you who like the cool bibliography.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 12:02 -0800 2004-01-30, Peter Kirk wrote:
Couldn't you just treat the small caps like the mathematical
alphanumeric symbols, as font compatibility variants of ordinary
capital letters - which is after all what they are?
That is their origin. That is not how these letters are used.
--
Michael
are.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
N2698 http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2698
Revised proposal to encode the Cuneiform script in the SMP of the UCS
Replaces N2664R
Michael Everson, Karljürgen Feuerherm, Steve Tinney
2004-01-29
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
as separate letters at the top level.
They are letters, not variants of other letters. See the UPA proposal
documents.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 10:53 -0800 2004-02-03, Peter Kirk wrote:
John, your phonology isn't actually even reasonable.
It wasn't John's idea. He was explaining it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 16:41 -0800 2004-02-03, Peter Kirk wrote:
From how I understand what Dean wrote, the issue is a very simple
one. What he wanted did work in Jaguar. It doesn't work in Panther.
He is unhappy about that.
He should file a bug report with Apple if he wants anything done about it.
--
Michael
? ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
for me. It is [m?m] which is negative.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
doesn't matter.
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Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to ask WG2 to
move that character and close the 0300 block.
Don't worry. We will have no trouble filling the empty space in due course.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
A new contribution:
N2705
http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2705
Proposal to encode five Indo-Europeanist phonetic characters in the UCS
Deborah Anderson Michael Everson
2004-02-03
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
be.
I disagree.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
what people have been using.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
acceptable. Why would it
be?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
.
See N2705? But there's a schwa too; Debbie is getting the reference
but didn't have it before the last UTC.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
should the / not be encoded?
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Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
been going on with phonetic characters for a while
now. That's part of the work we're involved with.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
LARYNGEAL, and the same for the other two.
No, the letters are productive in other contexts besides IE
laryngeals. In particular at least the Uralicists have recently
written to me thanking me for proposing the subscript o because it
turns out they need it too.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson
should object to the subscript letter is beyond me. And it
seems to me that you are objecting more to some possible subscript
tilde than to the attested subscript solidus, which is used in our
examples along with subscript parentheses.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
merits veto.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to encode is open to lots of interpretations. When
someone comes along and says we need to encode Devanagari ksha or
we need to encode ch, you, Michael Everson, will respond saying,
No, we do not need to encode those things,
Because they can be represented in plain text already.
I have to go
Presentation forms of Arabic letters are no longer being added to the
Unicode Standard, and use of the ones which were encoded is strongly
discouraged.
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Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
entities in that list, how many are encoded, and how
many are standard enough to merit consideration? I think that's
what the questioner was asking.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
and forms based on the usage of CDL in the Wenlin
system for constructing Chinese character glyphs.
I was only trying to clarify what I thought the question was, Ken. I
did forward it to Richard, who has responded offline.to Tim.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
?
Not at present. The Sinhala representatives siad that the numbers
were not used, and that they had never seen them. In the absence of
further information on them (samples from other sources) we ought not
try to encode them.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 21:01 -0800 2004-03-04, Doug Ewell wrote:
Edward H. Trager ehtrager at umich dot edu wrote:
In any case, once you reach age 40 and beyond, you don't want to
look at small fonts on screen anyway! ;-)
Some of us don't mind 'em.
Nope. Don't mind at all.
--
Michael Everson, 41
Everson Typography
sure they said that when I was 36. I detect a minor decrease in my
ability to read street signs at great distances so far. Anyway
rendering technology gets better and better, so hinting will become
less and less of an issue I would think.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
At 02:51 -0800 2004-03-05, Peter Kirk wrote:
Just wait a few years! Then at least you will care that the fonts
are properly hinted.
Proper hinting of fonts with today's technology is a thankless ordeal.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Ernest,
I have a proposal for the i.t.a. in the works; I would not unify it
with this character, which has a specific use in American English
lexicography.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 18:20 -0500 2004-03-05, Ernest Cline wrote:
[Original Message]
From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have a proposal for the i.t.a. in the works; I would not unify it
with this character, which has a specific use in American
English lexicography.
But that specific use is the same
can tell, there are no documents that
use both of these ligated th's, so the cases aren't parallel.
That doesn't mean we are going to unify them, David.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
In the NEW YORK TIMES today
comes a report of a USA patent for a new version of written Arabic
letters, designed to make them easier to read/write/typeset without
making them too different from traditional Arabic script:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/15/technology/15patent.html -
The piece
; nativeness is irrelevant except to the chauvinist.
Is there any way at all that using Unicode can help support our tradition?
Unicode is a character set for data interchange. Using it cannot of
itself do anything about the choices made by ill-educated sign makers
and advertisers.
--
Michael Everson
in SOAS.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
orthography. A picture of
the cover is at
http://www.evertype.com/gram/eilis-cover.jpg and
information on the book in general is at
http://www.evertype.com/gram/eachtrai-eilise.html
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
for English.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
without a dot.
This is the most elementary of character/glyph issues.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 02:04 -0800 2004-03-17, Peter Kirk wrote:
Or just use the accursed American Uncial, if there's a version of it
which supports more than Windows 1252.
It would not be suitable for Turkish, given its inherent ugliness.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
DOT ABOVE can be freely used on any base letter of the
Latin script. The dot on the LATIN SMALL LETTER I in Roman fonts is
unrelated to the COMBINING DOT ABOVE character. Irish can be
correctly and completely represented in the Unicode Standard.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography
are characters.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
communist governements).
What organization uses the ANARCHY SYMBOL? ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I think the ANARCHY SIGN is perfectly good, but I think it is a glyph
variant of an existing character.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
you don't want to
spell-check or sort the data correctly.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 19:04 + 2004-03-18, Jon Wilson wrote:
I also disagree that the Anarchy symbol has no use within a text. I
do not doubt that I can find examples of published texts where the
anarchy symbol is used throughout.
Please do.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
equivalent 00E9). It would also
be a spelling error to encode í with 0131.
Those are the facts. It is not a matter for dispute.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Ken and I agree.
Though I still think he is dead wrong about the LITTER DUDE.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
once, long ago. When I didn't know anything about
Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
, if the Gaelic font has been
drawn correctly and tastefully. This has been the
case for the entire history of the use of the
Irish langauge on computers. Those, Brian, are
the facts.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 15:58 -0800 2004-03-18, Peter Kirk wrote:
On 18/03/2004 10:30, Michael Everson wrote:
You mistake orthography and glyph choice with character identity.
Dotless i as a *character* is used only in Turkic languages, has
nothing to do with Irish, and never has.
May I pick a nit here? Dotless i
At 10:36 +0100 2004-03-19, Marco Cimarosti wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
What organization uses the ANARCHY SYMBOL? ;-)
The anarchist movement. Why are you winking?
That's not an organization. As Rick said, it's a disorganization. ;-)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
ACUTE.
The dot on the i in Roman fonts is NEVER, EVER,
represented by Turkish with COMBINING DOT ABOVE.
The acute acent on the í in Roman or Gaelic
fonts is NEVER, EVER, represented by Turkish
with COMBINING ACUTE.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
on the MES
subset and the Alpha project, it should be
pointed out that it is I, Michael Everson, who
actually did the work as formally-appointed
editor of these CEN/ISSS projects. The belated
payment for that work on the Alpha project would
have been paid after I had ended my business
relationship
-- and computer users worldwide -- are
better off for the investment made between 1994
and 2001 than they would have been otherwise.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
my partner's
sister's birthday, but I will check some
resources I have at home on this issue.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
refused to purchase,
but which fired my hungry soul's imagination.
While the bitmap font Gaillimh I designed in 1988
was not particularly beautiful, it never had a
dot on the i. My copy of Ó Dónaill's dictionary,
however, was bought by me in 1985 when I lived in
Tucson.
--
Michael Everson
At 13:29 +0100 2004-03-22, Antoine Leca wrote:
John Cowan va escriure:
Pavel Adamek scripsit:
From the viewpoint of sorting,
the coding HCOMBINING C BEFORE
would be much better than
CCOMBINING H AFTER.
For Czech, yes. For Spanish we want the latter.
What for?
Irony.
--
Michael Everson
to that.
This is rather puzzling. What fonts would these be, specifically?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
TOP-TO-BOTTOM EMBEDDING and
BOTTOM-TO-TOP EMBEDDING, with similar scope until the next PDF
character.
Which scripts are written bottom to top in vertical layout?
Ogham and sometimes Tifinagh.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
control characters.
You say this as though creating an app were something that anyone could do.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 10:30 -0800 2004-03-24, Peter Kirk wrote:
I don't know of any scripts in which the ordering of lines is bottom to top.
Orkhon (Old Turkic).
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
using paper, though.
Even when they are written from the body outward (when carving etc.),
they are not read that way, so I wouldn't count that as a
bottom-to-top script.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
with the materials used to write it bottom to top,
but it was never intended to be read that way.
As I said, it was written from-the-body-out.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
a boustrophedon
only script, then in my opinion, leaving the issue to higher levels
would be insufficient and Unicode will have to bite the bullet
and address boustrophedon in the standard itself.
Perhaps you should take this up with the keepers of the Bidi algorithm, Ernest.
--
Michael Everson
for those, but that is no reason to
complain about those fonts that dont.
Someone makingg an Indic font should consider this particular concern.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
is likely
to occur as part of a word rather than in isolation, to avoid
unwanted line breaks.
Of course, one could always display it with a dotted circle as well.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
newbie questions about Latin,
Greek, and Cyrillic capital A, for
example.
We really need to encode Cyrillic KU and WE, of course, as those are
examples of UTC over-unifications.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I think there are reasons for considering the Pluto variants as
different characters (usage for things other than Pluto) but this
needs checking.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
because it is in the standard.
John is correct here, but it is also true that All other space
characters have fixed width is a fairly strong declaration.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 13:52 -0800 2004-03-30, Rick McGowan wrote:
If there is a real need for exchanging some bunch of symbols, people
should be trying to standardize them, not standardize ways of *not*
standardizing them.
The Klingons are going to be back.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http
wrong for Unicode to make ANY property
pronouncements for ANY PUA characters, since that defines them, and
removes the P from the Use.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to say PUA characters are all
LTR spacing characters but for people who need to do something else,
the means to do so should be made available to them.
If I have understood the question.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
characters which have properties that approximate what the
Tengwar needs?
My guess is the latter, unless PUA *properties* can be opened up as
changeable by the user.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Looks like we're gonna add another 40 characters for Coptic
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
as squishable as
SPACE otherwise.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I am busy here in Münster with Coptic. I will
look over this thread when I get back to Dublin.
(This to the several people who wrote to me
asking me to write a proposal for the CEDI SIGN.)
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
morpheme break character?
Peter,
A screen reader has to know how to distinguish between read [ri:d]
and read [red] by some means other than insertion of a zero-width
character.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 13:29 -0700 2004-04-07, Richard Cook wrote:
I see. I assumed the codepoint assignments were already firm.
Never until the ballot is over.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
to this is to treat it as the top dot of a colon. So for me,
MIDDLE DOT is to COLON as MODIFIER LETTER HALF TRIANGULAR COLON is to
MODIFIER LETTER TRIANGULAR COLON.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
at whatever the height
of a HYPHEN was and be done with it.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 09:03 -0700 2004-04-17, John Hudson wrote:
Michael Everson wrote:
So for me, MIDDLE DOT is to COLON as MODIFIER
LETTER HALF TRIANGULAR COLON is to MODIFIER
LETTER TRIANGULAR COLON.
This would make the mid-dot too high. The top
dot of the colon usually sits toward the top of
the x-height
Please take this thread elsewhere.
--
ME
replacing.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
Two new contributions:
http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2744
N2744
Revision of the Coptic block under ballot for the BMP of the UCS
Michael Everson Stephen Emmel
http://www.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n2743
N2743
Proposal to encode the HRYVNIA SIGN and the CEDI SIGN in the UCS
Michael
.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
I would appreciate it if there were a [EMAIL PROTECTED] list for
these discussions.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 19:37 -0700 2004-04-24, Doug Ewell wrote:
Michael Everson everson at evertype dot com wrote:
I would appreciate it if there were a [EMAIL PROTECTED] list for
these discussions.
There is, [EMAIL PROTECTED], and I apologize for burdening this list with
my question.
Boy it would be really
.
It was felt not necessary to have two *public* lists.
I feel it is necessary to thread the items. Already the volume has
increased. Character set is a different thing from locales. Please
take this on board.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
be a locale list for discussion of all
the language tags, country tags, and other locale baggage.
Please, Mark.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 09:30 -0700 2004-04-25, Michael \(michka\) Kaplan wrote:
I find myself in the [rare? g] position of agreeing with Michael Everson
wholeheartedly.
(*embraces MichKa*)
Seems like those who want to combine them in a huge mishmosh can
simply belong to both lists, right?
Even I might want
Ernest,
I consider the whole Standardize TimeZone ID thread to have been
off-topic for the Unicode list. It is not about Unicode. It is about
locales.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
. It is no different from having lists dedicated to
specialized discussion of Tibetan or Hebrew or BiDi.
Please, Mark. You don't spend as much time on the Unicode list as I
do. Trust me.
Or trust MichKa.
Either way, please make a new list for this specialized discussion area.
--
Michael Everson
At 22:58 -0800 2004-05-12, D. Starner wrote:
I've never seen a multi-script index; is there any real legacy
behavior here, besides computer programs which were forced to do
something?
In general, scripts are separated.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
At 11:25 +0200 2004-05-13, Kent Karlsson wrote:
Michael Everson Wrote:
This sort
of battle was fought over Runic: Runologists wanted the Runes to be
sorted in Latin alphabetical order,
Yes, but there was no suggestion to interleave the Runes with the
Latin script. So the example of the Runes
the truth.
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com
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