Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
already >experiencing out of ordered writes given how close your writes and updates >are. > > > A note on NTP: NTP is generally fine if you use it to keep the clocks > synced between the Cassandra nodes. If you are interested in how we have > implemented NTP at Instaclustr, see our blogpost on it > https://www.instaclustr.com/blog/2015/11/05/apache-cassandra-synchronization/ > . > > > > Ben > > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 at 10:18 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for your reply. We dont use timestamps in primary key. We rely on > server side timestamps generated by coordinator. So, no functions at > client side would help. > > Yes, drifts can create problems too. But even if you ensure that nodes are > perfectly synced with NTP, you will surely mess up the order of updates > during the leap second(interleaving). Some applications update same column > of same row quickly (within a second ) and reversing the order would > corrupt the data. > > I am interested in learning how people relying on strict order of updates > handle leap second scenario when clock goes back one second(same second is > repeated). What kind of tricks people use to ensure that server side > timestamps are monotonic ? > > As per my understanding NTP slew mode may not be suitable for Cassandra as > it may cause unpredictable drift amongst the Cassandra nodes. Ideas ?? > > > Thanks > Anuj > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > > On Thu, 20 Oct, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Ben Bromhead > > <b...@instaclustr.com> wrote: > http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a > pretty good overview > > If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the > situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using > timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even > for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. > > The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in > Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may > overwrite data. > > As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address > in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are > relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will > get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP > inaccuracy etc). > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. > > I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate > versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum > answer for the following question: > > How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and > column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old > one (disaster). > > And Downtime is no option :) > > I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. > > FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. > > > Thanks > Anuj > > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer > > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 <(650)%20284-9692> > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer > > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 <(650)%20284-9692> > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer >
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
adehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for your reply. We dont use timestamps in primary key. We rely on > server side timestamps generated by coordinator. So, no functions at > client side would help. > > Yes, drifts can create problems too. But even if you ensure that nodes are > perfectly synced with NTP, you will surely mess up the order of updates > during the leap second(interleaving). Some applications update same column > of same row quickly (within a second ) and reversing the order would > corrupt the data. > > I am interested in learning how people relying on strict order of updates > handle leap second scenario when clock goes back one second(same second is > repeated). What kind of tricks people use to ensure that server side > timestamps are monotonic ? > > As per my understanding NTP slew mode may not be suitable for Cassandra as > it may cause unpredictable drift amongst the Cassandra nodes. Ideas ?? > > > Thanks > Anuj > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > > On Thu, 20 Oct, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Ben Bromhead > > <b...@instaclustr.com> wrote: > http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a > pretty good overview > > If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the > situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using > timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even > for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. > > The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in > Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may > overwrite data. > > As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address > in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are > relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will > get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP > inaccuracy etc). > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. > > I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate > versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum > answer for the following question: > > How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and > column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old > one (disaster). > > And Downtime is no option :) > > I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. > > FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. > > > Thanks > Anuj > > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer > > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 <(650)%20284-9692> > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer > > -- Ben Bromhead CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> +1 650 284 9692 Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
imeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may overwrite data. As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP inaccuracy etc). On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: Hi, I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum answer for the following question: How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old one (disaster). And Downtime is no option :) I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. ThanksAnuj -- Ben BromheadCTO | Instaclustr+1 650 284 9692Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer -- Ben BromheadCTO | Instaclustr+1 650 284 9692Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
If you need guaranteed strict ordering in a distributed system, I would not use Cassandra, Cassandra does not provide this out of the box. I would look to a system that uses lamport or vector clocks. Based on your description of how your systems runs at the moment (and how close your updates are together), you have either already experienced out of order updates or there is a real possibility you will in the future. Sorry to be so dire, but if you do require causal consistency / strict ordering, you are not getting it at the moment. Distributed systems theory is really tricky, even for people that are "experts" on distributed systems over unreliable networks (I would certainly not put myself in that category). People have made a very good name for themselves by showing that the vast majority of distributed databases have had bugs when it comes to their various consistency models and the claims these databases make. So make sure you really do need guaranteed causal consistency/strict ordering or if you can design around it (e.g. using conflict free replicated data types) or choose a system that is designed to provide it. Having said that... here are some hacky things you could do in Cassandra to try and get this behaviour, which I in no way endorse doing :) - Cassandra counters do leverage a logical clock per shard and you could hack something together with counters and lightweight transactions, but you would want to do your homework on counters accuracy during before diving into it... as I don't know if the implementation is safe in the context of your question. Also this would probably require a significant rework of your application plus a significant performance hit. I would invite a counter guru to jump in here... - You can leverage the fact that timestamps are monotonic if you isolate writes to a single node for a single shared... but you then loose Cassandra's availability guarantees, e.g. a keyspace with an RF of 1 and a CL of > ONE will get monotonic timestamps (if generated on the server side). - Continuing down the path of isolating writes to a single node for a given shard you could also isolate writes to the primary replica using your client driver during the leap second (make it a minute either side of the leap), but again you lose out on availability and you are probably already experiencing out of ordered writes given how close your writes and updates are. A note on NTP: NTP is generally fine if you use it to keep the clocks synced between the Cassandra nodes. If you are interested in how we have implemented NTP at Instaclustr, see our blogpost on it https://www.instaclustr.com/blog/2015/11/05/apache-cassandra-synchronization/ . Ben On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 at 10:18 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for your reply. We dont use timestamps in primary key. We rely on > server side timestamps generated by coordinator. So, no functions at > client side would help. > > Yes, drifts can create problems too. But even if you ensure that nodes are > perfectly synced with NTP, you will surely mess up the order of updates > during the leap second(interleaving). Some applications update same column > of same row quickly (within a second ) and reversing the order would > corrupt the data. > > I am interested in learning how people relying on strict order of updates > handle leap second scenario when clock goes back one second(same second is > repeated). What kind of tricks people use to ensure that server side > timestamps are monotonic ? > > As per my understanding NTP slew mode may not be suitable for Cassandra as > it may cause unpredictable drift amongst the Cassandra nodes. Ideas ?? > > > Thanks > Anuj > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > > On Thu, 20 Oct, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Ben Bromhead > > <b...@instaclustr.com> wrote: > http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a > pretty good overview > > If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the > situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using > timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even > for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. > > The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in > Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may > overwrite data. > > As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address > in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are > relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will > get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP > inaccur
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
Following https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-9131. It is very interesting to track how the timestamp has moved from the user, to the server, then back to the user quasi the driver. Next we will be accounting for the earths slowing rotation as the ice caps melt :) https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/IceCaps.HTM On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Hi Ben, > > Thanks for your reply. We dont use timestamps in primary key. We rely on > server side timestamps generated by coordinator. So, no functions at > client side would help. > > Yes, drifts can create problems too. But even if you ensure that nodes are > perfectly synced with NTP, you will surely mess up the order of updates > during the leap second(interleaving). Some applications update same column > of same row quickly (within a second ) and reversing the order would > corrupt the data. > > I am interested in learning how people relying on strict order of updates > handle leap second scenario when clock goes back one second(same second is > repeated). What kind of tricks people use to ensure that server side > timestamps are monotonic ? > > As per my understanding NTP slew mode may not be suitable for Cassandra as > it may cause unpredictable drift amongst the Cassandra nodes. Ideas ?? > > > Thanks > Anuj > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android> > > On Thu, 20 Oct, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Ben Bromhead > <b...@instaclustr.com> wrote: > http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a > pretty good overview > > If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the > situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using > timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even > for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. > > The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in > Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may > overwrite data. > > As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address > in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are > relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will > get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP > inaccuracy etc). > > On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. >> >> I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate >> versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum >> answer for the following question: >> >> How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and >> column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old >> one (disaster). >> >> And Downtime is no option :) >> >> I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. >> >> FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. >> >> >> Thanks >> Anuj >> > -- > Ben Bromhead > CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> > +1 650 284 9692 > Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer > >
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
Hi Ben, Thanks for your reply. We dont use timestamps in primary key. We rely on server side timestamps generated by coordinator. So, no functions at client side would help. Yes, drifts can create problems too. But even if you ensure that nodes are perfectly synced with NTP, you will surely mess up the order of updates during the leap second(interleaving). Some applications update same column of same row quickly (within a second ) and reversing the order would corrupt the data. I am interested in learning how people relying on strict order of updates handle leap second scenario when clock goes back one second(same second is repeated). What kind of tricks people use to ensure that server side timestamps are monotonic ? As per my understanding NTP slew mode may not be suitable for Cassandra as it may cause unpredictable drift amongst the Cassandra nodes. Ideas ?? ThanksAnuj Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, 20 Oct, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Ben Bromhead<b...@instaclustr.com> wrote: http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a pretty good overview If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may overwrite data. As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP inaccuracy etc). On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: Hi, I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum answer for the following question: How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old one (disaster). And Downtime is no option :) I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. ThanksAnuj -- Ben BromheadCTO | Instaclustr+1 650 284 9692Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer
Re: Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
http://www.datastax.com/dev/blog/preparing-for-the-leap-second gives a pretty good overview If you are using a timestamp as part of your primary key, this is the situation where you could end up overwriting data. I would suggest using timeuuid instead which will ensure that you get different primary keys even for data inserted at the exact same timestamp. The blog post also suggests using certain monotonic timestamp classes in Java however these will not help you if you have multiple clients that may overwrite data. As for the interleaving or out of order problem, this is hard to address in Cassandra without resorting to external coordination or LWTs. If you are relying on a wall clock to guarantee order in a distributed system you will get yourself into trouble even without leap seconds (clock drift, NTP inaccuracy etc). On Thu, 20 Oct 2016 at 10:30 Anuj Wadehra <anujw_2...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. > > I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate > versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum > answer for the following question: > > How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and > column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old > one (disaster). > > And Downtime is no option :) > > I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. > > FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. > > > Thanks > Anuj > -- Ben Bromhead CTO | Instaclustr <https://www.instaclustr.com/> +1 650 284 9692 Managed Cassandra / Spark on AWS, Azure and Softlayer
Handle Leap Seconds with Cassandra
Hi, I would like to know how you guys handle leap seconds with Cassandra. I am not bothered about the livelock issue as we are using appropriate versions of Linux and Java. I am more interested in finding an optimum answer for the following question: How do you handle wrong ordering of multiple writes (on same row and column) during the leap second? You may overwrite the new value with old one (disaster). And Downtime is no option :) I can see that CASSANDRA-9131 is still open.. FYI..we are on 2.0.14 .. ThanksAnuj
