RE: [Vo]:Deconstructing Rossi

2014-10-27 Thread Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson
Blaze sez: That being said, I do believe Rossi might have messed with the fuel or the extraction of the fuel in some way to mis direct, so if you want to re-write your analysis to hold for that, I'd be cool with it. I just won't accept that the scientists purposely lied. So, how much money

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
What you say, Dave, is entirely true and always pragmatically wrong. Most DAQ systems do not sample simultaneously and have an input capacitance that provides averaging. Thus, you will always be reading average current between samples and average voltage. Computing power from average current

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
If the internal current control feedback mechanism is slow to act, then the output current might indeed change significantly. I have never put a constant current supply under careful supervision before but assumed that the guys designing them would go to lengths to ensure that they in fact

[Vo]:answer to Open Letter and a new metaphor

2014-10-27 Thread Peter Gluck
Dear Friends, I have just published. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/10/about-new-negative-information-and.html you will see that my Open Letter had limited success but I created a new inspiring metaphor of LENR that will have success commensurate with the OL. But it is real, you will

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
I have no first hand knowledge one way or the other [this was not my assertion]. I believe Dr. McKubre to be an outstanding researcher and have no reason to believe this escaped his attention. Even if it did, it would only be a minor error and does not alter conclusions. It will make a

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
The information that I have received, which might not be totally accurate, is that most of the testing is done in constant current mode operation. The supply current would be monitored and then plenty of negative feedback would come into play to ensure that the current remains fixed. This

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Alain Sepeda
2014-10-24 23:14 GMT+02:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: McKubre never reported a 3% gain. Even with his calorimeter that would be in the margin of error at the bottom of the scale, although he can detect the difference between, say, 40% and 43%. As I recall, McKubre reported gains

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
The note from Kur is seriously in error. Dr. McKubre was entirely correct in his assumptions about the constant current operation of his cells. As he explained, the AC noise voltage variations average out over the long term and do not contribute to the net input power calculations and hence

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Axil Axil
Nobody really knows how the E-Cat radiates energy. Ni/H is completely undefined technology. No assumptions should be made about LENR. The IR camera calibration is an excellent opportunity to made bad assumptions about the calibration of these sensors. This is the main reason why I believe that an

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Jed Rothwell
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody really knows how the E-Cat radiates energy. It radiates heat energy according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law, like any other object. The source of the heat is irrelevant. All hot objects radiate heat the same way, and they all turn the same incandescent

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
I hate to say this, but what you say is absolutely wrong. You could only do as you describe if the voltage being averaged is the RMS voltage. You cannot take the average voltage and multiply it by the average current to get average power. For example, suppose that the voltage was

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Craig Haynie
On 10/27/2014 03:08 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: All hot objects radiate heat the same way, and they all turn the same incandescent color at a given temperature. Everything I read tells me this is modified by a materials 'emissivity' factor. The amount of thermal energy an object will radiate is

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Axil Axil
I believe that the E-Cat is completely enclosed in a high temperature boson condensate. How that condensate might radiate energy is UNKNOWN. This condensate could be releasing energy at a single IR frequency like a laser might. The test team should have run a spectrum analysis on this reactor's

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Jed Rothwell
H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: ​Unless heat is absorbed during charging and is released during discharge a calorimeter can't tell you if an endothermic reaction occurred. The heat being absorbed is the definition of an endothermic reaction. That's exactly what it is. Even if the energy

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Alan Fletcher
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 12:08:08 PM Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Nobody really knows how the E-Cat radiates energy. It radiates heat energy according to the Stefan-Boltzmann law, like any other object. The source of the heat is

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Cook
Jed-- Your understanding of black body radiation is different from mine relative to its equilibrium temperature. Note that I have suggested that my understanding of temperature and radiation emitted by a black body depend upon an equilibrium condition. The substance with the light emission

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Alan Fletcher
My analysis of IR calorimetry and Black Body radiation is here : http://lenr.qumbu.com/blackbody_141027A.php I was persuaded by McKubre and Docherty not to downgrade my results to failed experiment. I've also updated my banding paper :

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
This is not my understanding. Most wattmeters that are implemented as you describe require the wattmeter to be the entire target load. Otherwise, there is no error-proof way to know how much power is dissipated in the wattmeter in relation to that which is dissipated in the device. Typical

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Jed Rothwell
Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: This is not my understanding. Most wattmeters that are implemented as you describe require the wattmeter to be the entire target load. Otherwise, there is no error-proof way to know how much power is dissipated in the wattmeter in relation to that

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
In thermal wattmeter, the series wire that is heated measures the current squared, not power. This is useful for measurement of the power to the load only if the load is resistive and the resistance does not vary because the power is I^2R. You could measure the voltage squared with a similar

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Alain Sepeda
If you stabilize the current at I0 I think that the question of average is solved. you have U(t)=U0+R(t)I0 P(t)=U(t)I0 what is proposed here is that R(t) is hugely unpredictable and changing quickly. in fact if you measure U(t) average over the time period, you have simply the power injected.

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Jed Rothwell
Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote: . . . So to use such [thermal watt-] meters, you have to presume that you have no phase shift between the voltage and current (a point of residual equivocation and error). To insure this is a correct presumption, you need an oscilloscope to check.

Re: [Vo]:Deconstructing Rossi

2014-10-27 Thread mixent
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:05:35 -0700: Hi, [snip] 5) The second iteration of the Blue Box for China will contain about 100+ low temp E-Cat sub-units, each with average COP of about 2, but staged in such a way that the net COP is infinite (which is simple to do,

Re: [Vo]:A new type of laser is born?

2014-10-27 Thread Kevin O'Malley
What a bunch of horse manure. Your enfeebled building is built from scat. And if God had intended real thinkers to ski, he'd have made bullshit white. On 10/26/14, Robert Ellefson vortex-h...@e2ke.com wrote: Occam's Razor is a tool used by enfeebled minds to construct paper houses out of

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
Bob, I take that as a challenge. I am not offended my friend, but find this a great opportunity to prove what I am saying is correct. I predict that you will agree with me once you have an opportunity to dig deeper into the subject. It is not clear to me what you are showing in your

Re: [Vo]:Deconstructing Rossi

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
Consider that if you actually have a COP of 2 under a set of conditions, then changing those conditions should allow for an increase in the COP. Better insulation for the escape heat flow paths will cause an increase in the core temperature. If the generated power increases with core

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Kevin O'Malley
We cannot even assume that it follows the laws of physics? ***A law is just a mathematically rigorous observation. It is not a dictate from nature. LENR is a field of study precisely because the laws of physics are being broken. It's as if you took some bricks and dropped them from the leaning

Re: [Vo]:MFMP interviews spokesman from WILLIAMSON

2014-10-27 Thread Axil Axil
What is new in LENR is how high power magnetic force interacts with the vacuum, nuclear matter, and associated orbital electrons. On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: We cannot even assume that it follows the laws of physics? ***A law is just a

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Bob Higgins
Well Dave, you have made a good and convincing argument. My hat is off to you and I need to eat it with a big public helping of crow. It seems like if we go back to basics, the average power is integral((I dot V)dt)/integral(dt). If I is a constant, then you can pull I outside the integral and

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Eric Walker
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: No matter how intense and short the burst of energy is, as long as the calorimeter walls prevent it from escaping, and it produces enough joules of heat to be detected, it will be detected. This is a great advantage of

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Eric Walker
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 4:53 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Since we are assuming a symmetrical AC waveform, this is a pretty good example of that with numerous harmonics that also get into the act. Is this a safe assumption? Eric

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
Thanks Bob for taking the time to follow my discussion. If we are lucky others will help to inform the skeptics that Dr. McKubre is doing his experimentation in a manner that we can agree is appropriate. Don't beat yourself up too badly since I have a hunch that very few others would have

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread David Roberson
I suppose I should have stated that in a more appropriate manner. What I was attempting to get across was that the waveforms must not contain a DC component. Any DC portion would behave exactly as Dr. McKubre explained and appear as a valid input signal which remains after averaging and is

Re: [Vo]:questions on McKubre cells and AC component

2014-10-27 Thread Eric Walker
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:10 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Let me know if you are still confused since it is important that we set the records straight and dispose of skeptical ideas. Unfortunately I don't know enough about electronics yet to have an opinion on Michael