This question does not involve a chemical reaction. True, no chemical
reaction can ionize hydrogen. When hydrogen in the ground state is ionized
to the plasma state, it requires 13 electron volts. per atom.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Bob Higgins
Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't know why you think it is impossible.
I think so because every textbook and every expert says it is impossible,
and because I am familiar with the upper limits of chemical fuel energy
density. I have read a lot about both conventional and
Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com wrote:
Piantelli was describing the various ways that energy can be stored in an
experiment with hydrogen, and included the comment about 1,312 kJ/mole for
IONIZED hydrogen.
It is not possible to store this much energy in hydrogen.
If you multiply
I don't know why you think it is impossible. Energy storage in ions may be
impractical for any significant energy storage, but the ionization energy
is exactly as he describes. Even though it was described as energy/mole,
it is no different than saying 13.6 eV/atom. No one ever said a mole
Bob--
What you say if obvious and needs to be considered IMHO.
Bob Cook
- Original Message -
From: Bob Higgins
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2015 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A strange and screwy claim by Piantelli
I don't know why you think it is
When an electric arc is applied to water, the water is decomposed into
oxygen and hydrogen. But hydrogen is excited to high energy levels. When
the hydrogen is absorbed by palladium, the hydrogen carries the high energy
of excitation into the hydride. The Palladium retains that energy of
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
When an electric arc is applied to water, the water is decomposed into
oxygen and hydrogen. But hydrogen is excited to high energy levels. When
the hydrogen is absorbed by palladium, the hydrogen carries the high energy
of excitation into the hydride. The
I really don't want this topic to drag on - it is making a mountain out of
an ant hill. Strictly speaking Piantelli is correct. There are hydrogen
ions and anions adsorbed onto a properly prepared surface of Ni (read his
patent application, now published). It is a small, probably negligible
Bob Higgins and Axil--
In nano Ni systems we have discussed many ideas about the nature of H(D) in
such systems. This has included the potential existence of Cooper pairs of H,
BEC's of these pairs, ionized hydrogen plasmas, H monatomic gas, H diatomic
gas, and various forms of molecular and
The Piantelli system uses a heater not an arc. The systems that Piantelli
is criticizing use arcing in water (heavy or light), for example, a PF
cell.. If the experimenter does not turn on his calorimeter until the
system is totally excited, it will look like the system is giving off
excess
Did Piantelli explain how his negative hydrogen ion(protide) theory does
not violate the conservation of angular momentum. since two electrons are
in orbit around a proton. What happens to that angular momentum when the
Protide enters the nucleus?
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Bob Higgins
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
The Piantelli system uses a heater not an arc. The systems that Piantelli
is criticizing use arcing in water (heavy or light), for example, a PF
cell.. If the experimenter does not turn on his calorimeter until the
system is totally excited, it will look
I have just returned from meeting between MFMP and Francesco Piantelli.
Piantelli does not speak English, so a translator was used. In some cases,
some meaning was lost in translation, and there is at least one funny story
from mis-translation to Piantelli (but that is a topic for another time).
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 23:31:24 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/01/13/hot-cat-replication-attempt/
see power drops near 3393 and 3499, but output temperature stays constant.
Note that the time is in 5 second increments. Need to check exactly
Hi Bob,
The power steps from 10,30,50,70, 90 watts (equal intervals of 1 hour).
The temperature is not constant. The resistance is actually increasing
during the control run, but you can't see it in that chart because of the
scale. The resistance was determined by V/I. The resistance of the
Jack--
Thanks for that info.
Bob
- Original Message -
From: Jack Cole
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A strange and screwy claim by Piantelli
Hi Bob,
The power steps from 10,30,50,70, 90 watts (equal intervals of 1
Thanks Terry - I was about to make a similar point regarding fractional
hydrogen - you don't have to agree with the Naudt's proposal that the hydrogen
is relativistic because even just from the perspective of fractional hydrogen
loading into a lattice with defects you are still storing
Yes. Good observation. It is all a matter of large-scale perspective. What we
think of as a ground state can indeed be a form of stored energy - to the
degree that there are redundant states which are stable after releasing
substantial energy which comes from electron spin (angular momentum
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Piantelli is correct in principle if not in detail.
No, he is wrong. If he or anyone else can show a way to store more energy
per gram than O2 - H2 fuel, they will revolutionize energy technology. This
would be a tremendous breakthrough. I am confident he has
Axil, t
hanks for the link. It took me to another link which
is about a very important
economic
theory
called the
Khazzoom–Brookes postulate
which is the modern formulation of Jevon's paradox first noticed in
1865. This theory should inform energy policy but it is not widely known.
Jones, I am very ok with your perspective but in my heart of hearts I think
electron spin is locally little changed and it is the entire atom that becomes
Lorentzian contracted/ temporally dilated in a negative way, proton and all not
just the orbital. The atom randomly migrates into regions
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
wrote:
If he or anyone else can show a way to store more energy per gram than O2
- H2 fuel, they will revolutionize energy technology. This would be a
tremendous breakthrough. I am confident he has not found this.
Even as
More...
When it comes to EMF, things usually come in pairs: positive and negative
charge, north south magnetic poles, electrons and positrons, particles and
anti particles, a vortex and an anti vortex.
The same is true for an SPP, a child of dipole vibration, the SPP comes in
a pair. Not only
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Energy storage in LENR is not based on chemistry. On the contrary is
based on Light matter entanglement. Electron, holes and infrared photons
become entangled at x-ray photon energies.
There is no evidence that LENR is a form of energy storage. If it
Axil,
You may find a plot of a the resistance during the successful run vs. the
control run to be of interest.
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/exp5resistance.png
Best,
Jack
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
There is one
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:07 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
BTW, formation of 1 molecule of Hydrogen gas from atomic Hydrogen yields
4.519
eV per H2 molecule.
By comparing this reaction to the formation of water through the burning
(oxidation) of hydrogen, one can get a sense of how much
In reply to Eric Walker's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 12:40:18 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 7:07 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
BTW, formation of 1 molecule of Hydrogen gas from atomic Hydrogen yields
4.519
eV per H2 molecule.
By comparing this reaction to the formation of water
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:08:00 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
One would think that it ought to be possible to significantly reduce the
weight
of the first stage of a rocket by using jet engines iso rocket engines.
That way
you save the weight
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
Actually what I had in mind was more something with just jet engines iso
rocket
engines, not something carried into the air on the back of a jet.
What is the typo iso supposed to be? Instead of? Inside of?
Anyway, you need both. The jet engines no longer work at
There is one interesting type of behavior that I have noticed between the
dummy heat profile calibration runs of the MFMP Dog Bone and the LENR
experiment. This strange behavior is also found in Jack Coles experiment,
There is a high degree of heat fluctuation in the LENR experiment that does
not
Hi Jack.
The behavior of the power supplied to the core heater is interesting. A
constant power circuit might best be used to minimize the power
fluctuations supplied to the reactor heater so that the temperature of the
heater stays constant and predictable and most important adjustable.
The
In reply to Jack Cole's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 16:47:13 -0600:
Hi,
[snip]
Axil,
You may find a plot of a the resistance during the successful run vs. the
control run to be of interest.
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/exp5resistance.png
Best,
Jack
Fast particles
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 20:36:24 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
I believe that the air thins out much too quickly with altitude. The first
stage would only be useful up to mount everest's elevation.
..but maybe that's enough, if the second third stages are bigger, which
In reply to David Roberson's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 20:34:47 -0500:
Hi Dave,
[snip]
That is a question that has bothered me for a long time Robin.
I suspect that the answer is a combination of two things, environmental heat
energy, and chemical combination energy released by the formation
H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
I am not sure what Piantelli meant, but even if the magnitude of the heat
anomaly is real, can we say with confidence that cold fusion will be a
cost effective means of generating energy, i.e. will the energy required to
a manufacture a cold fusion
I believe that the air thins out much too quickly with altitude. The first
stage would only be useful up to mount everest's elevation.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Jan 17, 2015 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 21:17:13 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
If you have noted, at the far end of Jack Cole's temperature curve, the
power feed to the heater is still fluctuating but the temperature of the
reactor stays constant. Has LENR gain set in? I think so.
Which
http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2015/01/13/hot-cat-replication-attempt/
see power drops near 3393 and 3499, but output temperature stays constant.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 9:40 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 21:17:13 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
If
That is a question that has bothered me for a long time Robin.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, Jan 17, 2015 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A strange and screwy claim by Piantelli
In reply to Eric Walker's message
If you have noted, at the far end of Jack Cole's temperature curve, the
power feed to the heater is still fluctuating but the temperature of the
reactor stays constant. Has LENR gain set in? I think so.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 9:08 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Jack Cole's message
Axil,
I do this already through my programmable power supply. My program which
controls the power supply adjusts the power output every 5 seconds to
maintain a constant power output. It's not perfect since the R was
changing rapidly allowing some fluctuation in power resulting in the
average
Change
A large laptop charger of a car battery charger might work paired with a
constant power regulator of sufficient power rating..
To
A large laptop charger or a car battery charger might work paired with a
constant power regulator of sufficient power rating..
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 7:16
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:47:23 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
Actually what I had in mind was more something with just jet engines iso
rocket
engines, not something carried into the air on the back of a jet.
What is the typo iso supposed to be?
You can make the power into the load fairly constant as the load changes
impedance if you place a series resistor in the path who's value is equal to
the wire resistance. Of course you will be throwing away an amount of power
that is equal to that taken by the load.
This is a crude form of
Check out the development of diamond cable
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/10/tech/innovation/space-elevator-nanotechnology/
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 8:41 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 17:47:23 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 11:54:11 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
If Mills is correct, that would produce far more energy than H2 chemical
fuel. That's another story. I do not classify that as chemical in the
conventional sense. It is not caused by electron bonds.
Not quite true.
Jack--
In the following link to the resistance wire plot
(http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/exp5resistance.png)
it appears that the resistance of the controls heater wire did not change.
Was the temperature of the control constant? It would be desirable to display
I guess Piantelli said this . . . or there is a misunderstanding.
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
[Piantelli?] also spent a lot of time on the all important matter of
credibility in claims. Principally about the HUGE amount of energy that can
be stored in various forms of Hydrogen and
Jed, if the system is stable for only a few ours, it is an important
consideration. I think you won't get it running it smoothly for more
than a few hours in the first trials.
2015-01-16 23:58 GMT-02:00, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com:
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup!
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 16 Jan 2015 20:58:06 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
These changes cannot produce more net energy than the formation of water.
That is the absolute upper limit to what a hydride can produce. 1430 J/g.
No chemical system can produce more than ~4 eV/atom which is close
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I guess Piantelli said this . . . or there is a misunderstanding.
Perhaps he speaks of fractional Rydberg states? You could call that
energy stored from about 13 billion years ago. :-)
In reply to mix...@bigpond.com's message of Sat, 17 Jan 2015 13:50:01 +1100:
Hi,
[snip]
BTW, formation of 1 molecule of Hydrogen gas from atomic Hydrogen yields 4.519
eV per H2 molecule.
(Of course there is no way to store atomic H.)
Formation of 1 molecule of liquid water from Hydrogen and
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
That is the absolute upper limit to what a hydride can produce. 1430 J/g.
No chemical system can produce more than ~4 eV/atom which is close to what
the heat of formation of water is.
Formation of 1 molecule of liquid water from Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses
yields
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
BTW, formation of 1 molecule of Hydrogen gas from atomic Hydrogen yields
4.519
eV per H2 molecule.
(Of course there is no way to store atomic H.)
That is my point about Piantelli's statement. Okay, there may be moments
when individual molecules or atoms produce
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:18:15 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
That is the absolute upper limit to what a hydride can produce. 1430 J/g.
No chemical system can produce more than ~4 eV/atom which is close to what
the heat of formation of water is.
mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
One would think that it ought to be possible to significantly reduce the
weight
of the first stage of a rocket by using jet engines iso rocket engines.
That way
you save the weight of the Oxygen (by far the heaviest component), by using
environmental air.
Yup.
Piantelli is correct in principle if not in detail. The ionization process
inside the Ni/H reactor is all pervasive and is not limited to just
hydrogen. In Piantelli's reactor, not only hydrogen is ionized but also a
significant amount of nickel located on the surface of his bars.
The energy for
I am not sure what Piantelli meant, but even if the magnitude of the heat
anomaly is real, can we say with confidence that cold fusion will be a
cost effective means of generating energy, i.e. will the energy required to
a manufacture a cold fusion reactor be significantly less than the energy
it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested
In physics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics, energy economics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_economics and ecological energetics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energetics, *energy returned on energy
invested* (*EROEI* or
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