Found this in mail during search and worthy of mention as a first case model
Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
On Sunday, June 14, 2015 4:08 AM, Harvey Norris wrote:
From my understanding, there are
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:
2) the unfueled cell should have the same weight of nickel only leaving out
the LAH
If there is unalloyed nickel powder in one of the tubes, will there be arc
discharges or sublimation of the nickel when the microwave is
From: David Roberson
The report that Parkhomov generated implied that his steam quality was very
good since the calibration worked as expected with a known heating power. Is
there reason to believe that the physical arrangement of his bucket
calorimeter is especially good at keeping the
It appears that I need to reread that report to see why his power measurement
was questionable. I wonder why the input power would read accurately enough
for the physics to work out on the heating calibration run but not when the
LENR load was connected?
But the point I was considering was
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Do you understand why so many of the skeptics of Parkhomov's boiling bucket
system stick to the notion that his test is not valid due to water escaping
along with the steam?
I am not aware that skeptics brought this up. If they did it is because he
did
I wrote:
Perhaps the location of the LENR heated inner container lid tends to
super heat the steam slightly before it exits his device.
That is how the spout on a kettle heated over a fire usually works. It
sticks out over the side, above the flame. Like this traditional iron
Japanese
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, but there's a problem, which are the inefficiencies of transforming
microwaves into heat. Notice how irregular is heating food. How that would
be measured, calibrated? It doesn't seem that easier.
You do not have to measure it, because you assume
I think it is really simple, magnetic heating, it's coiling a tube . I the
field is homogenous inside it.
Though, there is a problem in both microwave and this. The usual method,
with a heater, heats the gas which heats the sample, but now the sample is
heated. Given the size of the sample, it
This an intersting videos:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw_SrGU2iYs (it made copper melt, so it went up to
2562 and uses 2.5kw)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J9Dg1gKJpQ
This one boils iron (2862C)
The best part of it is the non contact with the apparatus and the
simplicity of the system.
Though I think
From: Daniel Rocha
Ø Why not heating it with magnetic induction?
Induction makes sense – at least for the entry level experiment, based on these
considerations
1) Cost – 1500 watt microwave oven costs $150 – whereas 1800 watt
induction cooktop is $75
2) Efficiency –
Also, even with the control, it is like food. Using different food will
heat differently. The material of the control should be different from the
actual cell.
Why not heating it with magnetic induction?
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Why not heating it with magnetic induction?
I guess that would be okay, but microwave ovens are cheap and readily
available.
Magnetic induction stops at the curie point. VHF Microwaves will heat only
the top of the skin of the reactor due to eddy current resistive heating.
Microwave will not penitrate skin so what is inside the reactor does not
matter to the skin heating process.
Protecting the IR sensor from the
Magnetic induction has problems as well. Nothing is going to substitute for a
calibrated calorimeter. And, in my opinion, direct heating with resistive
elements is the best way to get a true handle upon the input power. Power,
voltage, and current meters can be calibrated to extreme accuracy
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Also, even with the control, it is like food. Using different food will
heat differently. The material of the control should be different from the
actual cell.
Microwave ovens are tuned to heat water, so the water content is what
controls how hot food
The dummy reactor comparison is the most simple concept to understand for
the non expert. There are not many calorimeter experts.
The simplest demo is the most persuasive demo.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:23 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree with Dan. It will be more
I agree with Dan. It will be more difficult to convince anyone except a
person that believes that LENR is real. This technique is no where near as
reliable as a true, calibrated calorimeter. There are just too many variables
to contend with.
If the goal is to prove that LENR exists to
Magnetic induction heating does not stop at the Curie point. Any conductive
metal or material can be heated in that manner. The only requirement is that
the resistance of the material remains within a reasonable range of values.
Power is due to (induced current) squared x (effective
It does not matter what we do to the dummy/fueled reactor pair, as long as
the stimulation is equal, nother more matters.
Run a test with two dummies and show that ther temperatures are equal at
the high end temperature range. Then run a dummy/fuel pair and show that
the fueled reactor is 500C
To anyone requiring absolute proof, the dummy reactor will not be adequate.
The mere fact that it looks the same and behaves differently proves that it is
not an exact replacement. Magic tricks use this same type of desception to
convince folks that what they are seeing defies common sense.
Dave--
Steam separators are a common device in steam driven apparatus. They work by
centripetal force on the water dropplets.
Bob
From: David Roberson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:35 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:The good, the bad and the ugly
Fran, one
Do you understand why so many of the skeptics of Parkhomov's boiling bucket
system stick to the notion that his test is not valid due to water escaping
along with the steam? With that thought to consider it seems likely that they
would complain about the kettle idea as well. This leaves me
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Is there a method that can be used to ensure that the steam quality is
100%?
Sparge it. (Condense it in cold water.) This is probably only accurate to
within plus minus 5% but there can be no mistake about the results. It only
works with power of ~100
Dave, Good argument BUT one thought to consider is what if this heating coil
self destruct is the primary failure for large COP LENR experiments. This would
make the experiment worthwhile in that it would immediately open the door to
scaling the heating value beyond the microwaves ability as a
Anyone except for a skeptical scientist that must assume some type of trick
since it appears to violate his core beliefs. I am afraid it sounds like some
religious behavior; perhaps that is exactly what strong belief in theory
amounts to!
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Axil
Let us assume that it is impossible to show LENR works to anyone via
experiment. Then what is the perpose of the LENR experiement?
The open source community should provide as much LENR knowledge as possible
to all those working on LENR. This knowledge could be a springboard to the
establishment of
From: David Roberson
*
* Jones, my main concern with the induction cook top is the mismatch
between the heating coil and the typical shape of the fuel cores. If
researchers change the form factor of the fuel into a planar design, which sure
seem possible, then that issue can be
The induction heater would melt the nickel particles and the microwave will
not get into the core of the reactor.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
*From:* Daniel Rocha
Ø Why not heating it with magnetic induction?
Induction makes sense – at
From: Roarty, Francis X
Ø Dave, Good argument BUT one thought to consider is what if this heating coil
self destruct is the primary failure for large COP LENR experiments.
Yes, the coil is the huge problem, thus far insurmountable; and in contrast -
good calibration can be designed
Jones, my main concern with the induction cook top is the mismatch between the
heating coil and the typical shape of the fuel cores. If researchers change
the form factor of the fuel into a planar design, which sure seem possible,
then that issue can be somewhat resolved. After all, Rossi's
Fran, one problem that I recall that always arises is the question concerning
the quality of the steam that boils off. The final skeptical trump card is
that liquid water is carried by the rapidly moving steam and immediately
invalidates the calculation of the amount of heat exiting the
A test we might hope to see is heat afer death where a fueled reactor is
red hot after 10 minutes, the microwave off, and the dummy reactor cooled
to darkness. That would impress anybody.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 12:05 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
To anyone requiring absolute
See table 2.1:
http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/3451119/ACFAA5C.pdf/98899692-8a69-446d-ac9a-38b8fab3a160
No material can provide the range of control needed by induction to cover
the requirement from a 100C to 1400C reator test.
On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 11:49 AM, David Roberson
Does it not seem reasonable to believe that the local heating of the nickel
particles by induction would spread out beyond just those particles? It is a
pretty complicated mess to deal with, but there is reason to assume that all of
the metal would become heated in the vicinity. It is going
There is the bulk calorimetry demanded by true believers in the popular
interpretation of physical theory.
One possible way:
Go to Walmart. Buy an above-ground swimming pool for a few hundred bucks.
Install it in a basement or anywhere the temperature can be controlled to
within a degree or so.
Jones, I am concerned that no one has been able to overcome the claims of
skeptics that liquid water escapes with the steam and therefore confuses the
measurement. We need to come up with a dummy proof method that ensures that
the steam leaving the system is pure. That may be a challenge that
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Jones, I am concerned that no one has been able to overcome the claims of
skeptics that liquid water escapes with the steam and therefore confuses
the measurement. We need to come up with a dummy proof method that ensures
that the steam leaving the
Your plan seems reasonable to me Jed. Are you convinced that the scientific
community will accept it as valid? If that hurdle is overcome then this
technique would appear plausible in the quest to prove LENR.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Your plan seems reasonable to me Jed. Are you convinced that the
scientific community will accept it as valid?
Anyone who does not accept that is hopeless, and will never accept
anything. What I described about kettles has been common knowledge for
OK David, I am not much of an experimenter but I can certainly have ideas
and you asked for them so ;)
I have always believed there is a competence in incompetence - hard to
utilize I agree.
Here is my thoughts:
Take two identical induction heaters place a loaded LENR reactor in one and
a non
Thanks Lennart, I consider your use of a large flat plate of steel to meter the
induction heating as interesting. The remainder of the concept seems to be
more complicated than most experimenters would be capable of dealing with. I
tend to go for the simple ideas first, but that is not a
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Go to Walmart. Buy an above-ground swimming pool for a few hundred
bucks. Install it in a basement or anywhere the temperature can be
controlled to within a degree or so. Fill it. Turn on the filter pump to
circulate water. Put the apparatus in it.
Makes sense to me.
If we can couple one of these systems made of glass or some other material that
does not interact with the induction heater with a well controlled, and metered
energy acceptor, then that might work well enough as a calorimeter. The steel
plate concept just proposed or maybe
Here is one other thing about measuring heat by boiling water. I recommend
you put the entire vessel on a weight scale, if you can. Weigh it before
and after the test. That is better than pouring out the remaining water and
weighing it. You may fail to account for a lot of water when you pour it
Another thing with steam:
It would not hurt to do a reality check by sparging the steam for 10
minutes. You can't do it much longer, or the bucket will start to cool
significantly.
There is an engineering cost trade off between the length of the experiment
(hence integral of power) and the volume of water. For the definitive long
duration bulk calorimetry tests people demand. At a few weeks duration (as
apparently Rossie was forced to do by his potential customers) we're
From: David Roberson … my main concern with the induction cooktop is the
mismatch between the heating coil and the typical shape of the fuel cores. If
researchers change the form factor of the fuel into a planar design … then that
issue can be somewhat resolved.
Dave, one more thing I
Jack,
That is true provided it is possible to determine the efficiency of the driver
with respect to power ending up within the core load. Calibration of the load
is going to be difficult.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l
Harvey,
As the world’s leading (and possibly only) expert on “interphasal resonance” …
can you comment specifically on Rossi’s power supply, used at Lugano. If you
have done so, either I missed it or did not understand it. Rossi specifically
mentions this power supply in his patent
Jones,
I agree with your desire to find an easy to use and inexpensive heating method.
I am just pointing out that it may become a very difficult task to get
efficient heating unless the drive coil is a reasonable match to the load. You
can visualize what I am pointing out by taking a normal
From my understanding, there are situations where the amount of energy in
oscillation between L and C in series resonance can exceed the amount of real
energy manifested as I squared R heating losses. Many years ago I got the idea
that that if you sandwiched three phases of 120 degree time
Strange thought.. could “interphasal resonance” be the tail on a zero point
kite?
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 10:06 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:The good, the bad and the ugly
Harvey,
As the world’s leading (and possibly
How to setup a very simple glow stick LENR test with a microwave oven.
Use a microwave with a rotating glass turntable. Cover the glass turntable
with a one inch layer of high temperature insolation.
Use a reactor design composed of an alumina or zirconia tube or a mixture
of alumina and
I agree that in the future, it may be valuable to use inductive heating on
LENR devices that could evolve from the Lugano/Parkhomov/glowstick
reactors. However, at this stage in the game, I don't feel this technology
is necessary or desirable. It is not desirable because it is difficult
https://www.wpi.edu/academics/math/CIMS/IMMG/Seminars/Past/Seminar12/Docs/Paper-12-9.pdf
It is possible to build a custom microwave oven fed by two 1 kW, 2.45 GHz
magnetrons to heat alumina up to 1300C.
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
As Peter laments,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16541664
Alumina and zirconia powder mix (l00%Al2O3, 60%Al2O3+40%ZrO2, 40%
Al2O3+60%ZrO2, 100% ZrO2) were respectively press-compacted was heated to
1600C in a idomestic microwave oven (850 W, 2 450 MHz)
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:12 PM, Axil Axil
One magnetron is sufficient. SiC apparently works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoipiXvFAKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoipiXvFAKQhtml5=1 html5=1
From: Axil Axil
It is possible to build a custom microwave oven fed by two 1 kW, 2.45 GHz
magnetrons to heat alumina up to
I think this could work. The following issues must be solved or considered.
1) sealing without compression fittings - since the whole tube will be
heated
2) the unfueled cell should have the same weight of nickel only leaving out
the LAH
On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Jed Rothwell
Jed, but there's a problem, which are the inefficiencies of transforming
microwaves into heat. Notice how irregular is heating food. How that would
be measured, calibrated? It doesn't seem that easier.
Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:
Turn the microwave oven on and off based on a gradually increasing minimum
and maximum temperature setting of the reactors as they rotate on the
turntable.
The unfueled and fuel reactor will receive the same average input power
over time. If the LENR
From: Jack Cole
Ø
Ø Jones, It would be relatively easy to set a boil off calorimeter on top of
one of those induction heating plates. That would certainly be a lot easier
than anything else we've tried.
Yes. “Easy” is good when we desire to get decent data coming in from many
Getting the power into the load is the key to making one of these devices
operate efficiently. If a small amount of the magnetic flux from the drive
coil intercepts the fuel pellet then the reflected resistance appearing across
the resonate load is going to be quite large. The voltage swing
Dave,
Although I agree with what you say in principle about reflected resistance and
leakage flux, the advantages of an efficient, inexpensive inductive power
source (the cooktop) which is easily adaptable to boil-off calorimetry is so
impressive that it could swing the decision the other
Jones,
It would be relatively easy to set a boil off calorimeter on top of one of
those induction heating plates. That would certainly be a lot easier than
anything else we've tried.
Jack
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 7:55 PM Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
Dave,
Although I agree with
As Peter laments, there are two extremes in the recent LENR news.
Thomas Clark's report lucidly states exactly what many of us having been
saying for months about the flawed Lugano report.
The good news in the provocative site:
http://tet.in.ua/index.php/en/
Which is the Laboratory of
For the weekend inventor, high efficiency induction heating(93 %) is
expensive. The cheap equipment is energy wasteful(40 %). But this
efficiency question is only important in a COTS product.
For the weekend experimenter, the energy wasted by the electronics can be
ignored if the experiment is
Bob, There is a pretty good article on Wiki for induction cookers, but a look
at the patents turns up more than meets the eye in a superficial account.
The obvious part is that there is a Litz wire copper pancake coil inside the
cooktop, driven by silicon to low to mid kilohertz range –
Eddy currents work to produce heat in a metal or an metal oxide insolator
on the micro level which still exists in a metal or oxide over it curie
point.
http://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/3451119/ACFAA5C.pdf/98899692-8a69-446d-ac9a-38b8fab3a160
Hysteresis goes away beyond the Curie
From: Axil Axil
Ø
Ø For the weekend inventor, high efficiency induction heating(93 %) is
expensive. The cheap equipment is energy wasteful(40 %).
Here is cooktop from Amazon which is 84% efficient for about $60.
Research has shown a relationship between the frequency of the alternating
current and the heating depth of penetration: the higher the frequency, the
shallower the heating in the part. Frequencies of 100 to 400 kHz produce
relatively high-energy heat, ideal for quickly heating small parts or the
The good, the bad and the uglyJones--
You are correct about induction heating. My youngest daughter recently bought
a new induction heating stove. Nothing gets hot but the bottom of the pot,
and the water in the pot starts boiling almost immediately. There is very fast
and efficient energy
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