Jed Rothwell
On Wed, 12 May 2010 13:33 Jed Rothwell said
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
The entire palladium lattice can be considered a collection of cavities.
No, it is a lattice. A lattice is not the same as a cavity. A cavity is a
break in the lattice, in which D2 molecules can
OK, we are agreed that P1V1/T1 =P2V2/T2 even applies to state changes of gas
atoms. Normally Anything that effects the volume of the overall population
but here is where COE meets Casimir effect
Which allows monatomic gas to translate Freely with very little opposition
to fractional states, We
I am starting to feel a new animation coming on where the
fractional diatoms squeeze very slowly into the lattice but every time the
diatomic bond pops on one of them it causes a small chain reaction and
further bursting of any other nearby fractional diatoms nearing their
breaking
At 11:19 PM 5/12/2010, Jones Beene wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Yes, I understood that. The heat, though, doesn't come from expansion
of hydrogen.
Wrong. Some of the heat does come from expansion of hydrogen. Of course much
more comes from combustion.
What
The main point Abd,
... which we seem to be digressing away from - is that you were/are a little
rough on Shanahan, when in fact you missed the very thermodynamic issues that
he may (or may not) have known.
This is not to say that he is correct, by any means, as he is probably babbling
on
Regarding this topic, Ed Storms asked me to post the following:
A common mistake is being made here. In electrochemistry, when
deuterium is generated at the cathode, it produces gas at ambient
pressure and an activity of D in the Pd. In chemistry, activity is
made equal to the IDEAL
At 11:05 AM 5/13/2010, Jones Beene wrote:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/KitamuraAanomalouse.pdf
... which apparently you mistook for another Kitamura paper.
Kitamura also finds anomalous heat from hydrogen in a Phase 1
(non-nuclear) loading phase. This is above the heat of formation of
At 01:38 PM 5/10/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Jones Beene wrote:
Can you cite the reference for this kind of bursting tube, due to internal
pressurization, having being actually performed?
See McKubre's replication of the Arata experiment.
I didn't see mention of it there.
Regarding the
ON Wed, 12 May 2010 07:49 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said
[quote] Meanwhile, I'm generally interested in this phenomenon of high pressure
build-up within a hollow palladium tube, caused by electrolytic loading. That
loading must create a barrier that the deuterium cannot cross, and while the
barrier
At 01:20 PM 5/12/2010, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
Obviously Pd creates a barrier that d2
cannot cross, The controversy is over how the pressure is created.
No. This pressure is created by both hydrogen and
deuterium. The high pressure mentioned is created
by electrolysis with hydrogen or
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No. This pressure is created by both hydrogen
and deuterium. The high pressure mentioned is
created by electrolysis with hydrogen or
deuterium generated at the surface of a hollow palladium rod.
What experiment does this reference? Arata's
double-structured
On Wed, 12 May 2010 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said
I think so. There are cavities involved, likely. However, they are not
supplying any energy, apparently, rather they *configure* the reacting
ingredient or ingredients. We know that the reaction rate increases with
temperature. I suspect that the
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
We know that the reaction rate increases with temperature. I suspect
that the energy required -- there must be energy required, but
energy is not the only ingredient -- is generally supplied by ordinary heat.
I assume this reaction refers to heating from the
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Shanahan's cigarette-lighter explanation does not
factor for the lack of excess heat when doing this with hydrogen.
Well, at the risk of defending a repulsive argument, many experiments do
show excess heat with hydrogen, including some of
At 03:06 PM 5/12/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No. This pressure is created by both hydrogen
and deuterium. The high pressure mentioned is
created by electrolysis with hydrogen or
deuterium generated at the surface of a hollow palladium rod.
What experiment does this
At 03:06 PM 5/12/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No. This pressure is created by both hydrogen
and deuterium. The high pressure mentioned is
created by electrolysis with hydrogen or
deuterium generated at the surface of a hollow palladium rod.
What experiment does this
Jones Beene wrote:
Shanahan's cigarette-lighter explanation does not
factor for the lack of excess heat when doing this with hydrogen.
Well, at the risk of defending a repulsive argument, many experiments do
show excess heat with hydrogen, including some of the Arata experiments.
Which
At 03:33 PM 5/12/2010, Roarty, Francis X wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2010 Abd ul-Rahman Lomax said
I think so. There are cavities involved, likely. However, they are
not supplying any energy, apparently, rather they *configure* the
reacting ingredient or ingredients. We know that the reaction rate
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
Extremely high pressure is achieved by electrolysis at the surface
of an electrode, in a microscopic domain. According to some sources
it is 10E47 atmospheres (Mizuno, p. 101).
And what does this mean?
Oops, that was described as a misinterpretation. The correct
At 03:40 PM 5/12/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
We know that the reaction rate increases with temperature. I
suspect that the energy required -- there must be energy required,
but energy is not the only ingredient -- is generally supplied by
ordinary heat.
I assume
At 03:50 PM 5/12/2010, Jones Beene wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Shanahan's cigarette-lighter explanation does not
factor for the lack of excess heat when doing this with hydrogen.
Well, at the risk of defending a repulsive argument, many experiments do
show
At 03:40 PM 5/12/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
We know that the reaction rate increases with temperature. I
suspect that the energy required -- there must be energy required,
but energy is not the only ingredient -- is generally supplied by
ordinary heat.
I assume
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
A stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gas at room
temperature the mixture is stable, the gases do not combine.
However, given an ignition source, the mixture will rapidly combine
(if it's dense enough). It explodes.
As I said, with ordinary palladium
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Thus, like most evaporations, the escape of deuterium from the lattice
must cool it.
No. The inversion temperature of hydrogen is low, and there is no cooling on
expansion from the Joule-Thomson effect - as with an ideal gas.
In fact it
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Shanahan's cigarette-lighter explanation does not factor for the lack of
excess heat when doing this with hydrogen.
Well, at the risk of defending a repulsive argument, many experiments do
show excess heat with hydrogen, including some of
, 2010 12:06 PM
To: vortex-L@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Shanahan is proposing the cigarette lighter hypothesis
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
No. This pressure is created by both hydrogen
and deuterium. The high pressure mentioned is
created by electrolysis with hydrogen or
deuterium generated
Hoyt A. Stearns Jr wrote:
I electrolyzed a 1 oz. palladium wafer in D2O and it sure looked as if it
made its own
cavities -- it puffed up like a pillow with bubble like protrusions and it
seemed it was hollow inside.
Yes, that often happens, but Pd that does that will never produce the
At 05:29 PM 5/12/2010, Jones Beene wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Thus, like most evaporations, the escape of deuterium from the lattice
must cool it.
No. The inversion temperature of hydrogen is low, and there is no cooling on
expansion from the Joule-Thomson
At 06:04 PM 5/12/2010, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr wrote:
I electrolyzed a 1 oz. palladium wafer in D2O and it sure looked as if it
made its own
cavities -- it puffed up like a pillow with bubble like protrusions and it
seemed it was hollow inside.
My condolences.
-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Yes, I understood that. The heat, though, doesn't come from expansion
of hydrogen.
Wrong. Some of the heat does come from expansion of hydrogen. Of course much
more comes from combustion.
When air initially at a moderate temperature is
No Abd, Shanahan may be wrong on many points but the equivalent to
many atmospheres of hydrogen gas pressure exposure assertion is
correct, it is even a gross understatement, in the PF original paper
they computed something like 10^26 atm IIRC. That's electrolytic
compression: if you use a hollow
Michel,
Can you cite the reference for this kind of bursting tube, due to internal
pressurization, having being actually performed?
I have heard this before but not been able to verify it.
The reason that I think it would be unlikely is that it presents an easy
avenue for demonstrating gain -
At 09:10 AM 5/10/2010, Michel Jullian wrote:
No Abd, Shanahan may be wrong on many points but the equivalent to
many atmospheres of hydrogen gas pressure exposure assertion is
correct, it is even a gross understatement, in the PF original paper
they computed something like 10^26 atm IIRC. That's
Jones Beene wrote:
Can you cite the reference for this kind of bursting tube, due to internal
pressurization, having being actually performed?
See McKubre's replication of the Arata experiment.
Regarding the pressure from electrolysis, it far exceeds anything
that can be accomplished with
[quote] At the point where electrical contact was broken, the cell gas was very
nearly a stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Significant hydrogen
release will occur because the electrolytic loading was equivalent to many
atmospheres of hydrogen gas pressure exposure, but the hydrogen
Roarty, Francis X wrote:
[quote] At the point where electrical contact was broken, the cell gas
was very nearly a stoichiometric mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. . . .
I think that is a quote from Shanahan but anyway it is completely wrong, as
I said. The HAD cells described by Fleischmann and
At 08:29 PM 5/10/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Shanahan's arguments are pretty much the same as Morrison's circa
1990. There has been no change in the skeptical camp; no learning,
and argument worth discussing. These people understand nothing about
conventional electrochemistry or cold fusion. In
At 08:42 AM 5/8/2010, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Shanahan is proposing the oldest and least credible prosaic
explanation for cold fusion:
This is nonsense. See Fleischmann's response to Morrison about this,
p. 10 and 11:
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