From the french words
http://www.agoravox.fr/actualites/technologies/article/fusion-froide-lenr-resume-pour-130995?pn=1000#forum3769829
It is probably not an official title Conseiller du Commerce Extérieur,
but a consultant job, if not lobbying.
Hard to translate, especially because I don't know
Frederic Gilardone is quoted:
Currently, the temperatures obtained are of the order of 600 ° C in the
secondary circuit through the use of appropriate thermal fluids.
The reactor can be activated and deactivated in a short period of time and
the reaction is quite mastered (about 20 to 30
Jones, are you seriously suggesting that Rossi's US manufacturing partner is
...a soap company with 7 employees?!?
http://www.charliesoap.com/companyinfo.html
I thought debunking and ridicule was forbidden on this list?
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
You are exactly right. DGT have presented ZERO data. Every detail is
anecdotal and probably non-existent.
Not only that their reported progress depends on trusting a company which
admittedly stole the underlying technology. According to their own CEO,
Defkalion acquired their process by way
Sign an NDA, visit them and stop complaining!
2013/7/10 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
reaction is quite mastered (about 20 to 30 minutes after start). . . .
What is it with the people who visit Defkalion?!? They don't have
wristwatches? They don't carry pens or a pad of paper?!? About
Good question, Analog
LOL … Yes indeed, this soap supplier is clearly no NASA nor even BLP … and
yes, it is true that this kind of post from me would usually be
tongue-in-cheek cynical… but in this case, do not forget that Rossi has
less than 7 employees and Ampenergo which owns the US rights
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 22:38:55 -0400
That is very interesting Dennis. If I understand you correctly, you solve the
thermal run away problem by extracting heat fast enough to keep the thermal
I think I can see what Analog means. A 4 decade old company with a few
people is the ideal target for 1 million$ scam.
2013/7/10 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
Good question, Analog
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
Jed,
Not everything is intended for science. I see no reason that Defkalion should
be assumed to be required to display the science behind their inventions. I
would love to know their data, their theoretical models, . but..
When was the last time you saw CocaCola list their
yes, if you want data - go there and take it.
Dennis
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 11:34:19 -0300
Subject: Re: [Vo]:News about Defkalion Europe...
From: danieldi...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sign an NDA, visit them and stop complaining!
2013/7/10 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
However, as you imply, Charlie is a definite long shot unless he is
emblematic of a new business strategy… but it is not out of the question
that Sutherland has build a few Ecats to provide process heat.
Where did you get the idea this person is
I wrote:
The company doing the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project could handle
this. I'll bet they could do it as well as General Motors or Mitsubishi
could, in one-tenth the time. They do not have many employees.
When it comes time to crank out thousands of identical e-cats per month,
See:
http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/BockrisMemorial.pdf
*Yes, think of the plasma globe type lights. I have a central electrode
(actually W rod held by a Cu tube). It is within a brass sphere holding my
material. But the material is only stuck to the lower half on the wall. *
**
*If this info is not closely held, does this electrode produce a spark?
I added this IE link to
http://coldfusionnow.org/john-o-mara-bockris-1923-2013/
On 7/10/13 10:05 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
See:
http://www.infinite-energy.com/images/pdfs/BockrisMemorial.pdf
--
Ruby Carat
r...@coldfusionnow.org mailto:r...@coldfusionnow.org
Skype ruby-carat
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Not everything is intended for science.
This kind of presentation is only good for fluffy public relations.
I see no reason that Defkalion should be assumed to be required to
display the science behind their inventions.
No one is asking them to
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Sign an NDA, visit them and stop complaining!
1. They have not invited me.
2. I never sign NDAs. I do not want to hear any secrets.
An NDA covering everything would defeat the whole purpose of the visit.
When I go to a laboratory, my purpose is to
?? yes it produces sparks or arcs or discharge I am not sure of the
technical variations.
I am using a modified strobe light circuit. I cannot see into the good brass
sphere. I do have a cut away mockup of the sphere (I will have that with my
demo). The terminal ending moves among the
Thanks for the clarification Dennis. I wish you luck at the NI booth and
perhaps DGT will have something that trumps yours, but it appears that you are
in the running.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jul 10,
Jed, Rossi might still be working out the remaining bugs in his design. That
is reason enough to keep his cards close.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi update
Japanese team sees gamma-ray pulse before lightning flash
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/jul/10/japanese-team-sees-gamma-ray-pulse-before-lightning-flash
Also see the preprint by the same team:
Hardening and termination of long-duration gamma rays detected prior to
lightning
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Jed, Rossi might still be working out the remaining bugs in his design.
That is reason enough to keep his cards close.
I expect he is. Based on the history of similar ground-breaking, radically
new technology such as telegraphs, railroads, Diesel
As strange as it may sound at first, your approach is similar to what DGT
is doing. DGT uses Ni foam to protect their powder from the high heat of
the spark as you are doing.
DGT: “We then had to protect the modified Ni crystals
from the high temperatures around the glow discharges (3500 K at its
Thanks, but I am not really trying to compete with DGT or Rossi. I am just
doing it to see if it can be done, and to give my swansong farewell before I
retire to my arm chair. That is enough for me. I tried the commercialization
path and got burned. never again. I have published papers
exactly. That is why effort must be made in public acceptance not company
acceptance.
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 14:55:38 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Rossi update
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Jed, Rossi might still be working out the
I do not want to reveal my formulation at this time. However, I would say that
K and other things that can lower the energy of vacancy formation are useful.
I prefer Li if I use an alkaline. I often reduce my metal after placed in C
with Li Al hydride.
I have tried to use Ni foam
Now you have me worried. I suspect that what you say is true about the talent
required to perfect a design the first time, but the ECAT does not appear to
have many working parts. Rossi seems like a good hands on type of engineer
which is what we need to progress. He does not appear to
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
I had a working device on a board table of a major corp, (actually two
different companies) and had their technicians measure and verify and it
went nowhere - back in the CETI days.
Are you are talking about the CETI demonstration they showed in the
Well, I think the issue is that a third party has not proposed coming in and
doing a black box test. They seem open to that sort of thing as far as I can
tell.
They may also be concerned about being accused of being frauds. Perhaps the
data they have is so unbelievable, they know they will be
It does not surprise me to hear about your lack of a positive reception by
major corporations. I have witnessed similar things before and it appears to
be a combination of fear and disbelief that slows these guys down. Fear is
very real when someone gets behind a new concept that might fail.
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Now you have me worried. I suspect that what you say is true about the
talent required to perfect a design the first time, but the ECAT does not
appear to have many working parts.
The first telegraph had many moving parts. Too many. It was too
blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I think the issue is that a third party has not proposed coming in
and doing a black box test.
That is incorrect.
They seem open to that sort of thing as far as I can tell.
No, they are not. Not open to me, anyway.
I am not going to speculate about
From: fznidar...@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 7:47:22 PM
I'm at Amazon, Barns and Noble, and working with the Sidney Kimmel
group on something. If that not good enough for you, what is?
I didn't mean any disrespect to you. Just that on the same day BN fired their
CEO : not usually a
With Rossi's secret in the hands not only of his US partner but a
competitor, it seems likely that development will not much longer be
constrained by Rossi's limitations.
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Now
They seem open to that sort of thing as far as I can tell.
No, they are not. Not open to me, anyway.
I am not going to speculate about why or wherefore.
- Jed
Perhap's it is your overt negativity towards them?
Professor Kim seemed confident they have a breakthrough. I put a lot of
LENR is EASY to demonstrate to any educated person. The problem is not
that a plausible demonstration is impossible because skepticism is too
strong. The problem is simply ignorance of two kinds. Ignorance of one
kind has been identified by Jed and many other people. This kind of
ignorance
The reason CF was not accepted is it was discovered in the academy of a
rural culture and the elites are, as usual, highly identified with the
centers of population. This problem has only gotten worse since the
Wrights.
On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoTX-ORq9_Yfeature=player_detailpage#t=746s
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 3:24 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
The reason CF was not accepted is it was discovered in the academy of a
rural culture and the elites are, as usual, highly identified with the
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
With Rossi's secret in the hands not only of his US partner but a
competitor, it seems likely that development will not much longer be
constrained by Rossi's limitations.
Yes! I hope that is true. That has been the pattern of history. A gifted
inventor
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhap's it is your overt negativity towards them?
The role of temporal order in causality negates that hypothesis.
- Jed
In reply to David Roberson's message of Tue, 9 Jul 2013 23:40:10 -0400 (EDT):
Hi,
[snip]
Robin, do you see any reason why the particles leaving the active region would
exit the opposite side when such a low energy input is applied? I would
expect to see a random distribution.
This effect, if
Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
Ignorance of one kind has been identified by Jed and many other people.
This kind of ignorance was demonstrated most clearly by Patterson years ago
and Rossi now.
Yes indeed. It is enough to make you weep. Thank goodness Rossi has
overcome this
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
The reason CF was not accepted is it was discovered in the academy of a
rural culture and the elites are, as usual, highly identified with the
centers of population. This problem has only gotten worse since the
Wrights.
The not invented here
They have no need to demonstrate anything openly to anyone. Including any
random people from this list.
2013/7/10 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
No one is asking them to do that, least of all me. I say they should
describe the calorimetry that supports their claims. They can make this a
Utah (a rather significant data point, wouldn't you agree Jed?) doesn't fit
the ethnic interpretation of Morrison's regionalization. Its one of the
whitest, most northern European enclaves in the world -- including
northern Europe nowadays.
If I were to try to find a better description than
*“Ask yourself: What are they doing now? What, exactly, is the benefit of
having unknown outsiders publish fluff such as on the order of 600°C? On
the order of! They don't have a thermocouple? That's ridiculous. It is
unprofessional. It sounds like someone describing a fashion show in the
I would love it, but it seems no evidence can convince the mainstream...
Making a solid test protocol is hopeless. It can convince you, but
convincing you have no value for the mainstream MY mind.
Nothing can, simply nothing else commercialization.
I imagine they do demonstration just to be
In politics, the power of unrelenting repetition is undeniable. For
example, the business community has been repeating the meme that having
your wages reduced to below the poverty level is good both for you as well
as the country.
Through the weight of this unending reputation over the decade’s
re read what I wrote. I said a board room not a hotel room. It was a board
room with board members, president of a company, technical advisors showing the
results of the tests. It is things like that make inventors not trust you or
your motives. I personal resent you calling activities
Come to think about it, the High School reactor also uses a stark discharge
into a liquid emulation of random diameter tungsten micro/nano powder and a
potassium salt. They claim a COP of 4.**
* *
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
?? yes it produces
We don't know if they are or are not planning a demo.
At least one person of merit has said that they plan a engineering type paper
at ICCF and a low key demo at NI Week. But that is rumor. I have tried and
tried to get confirmation. I feeling is that they want a surprise factor.
Also
Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote:
I would love it, but it seems no evidence can convince the mainstream...
True, but we do not need to convince the mainstream. As I pointed out at
ICCF17, we have many friends. We need to convince them first, and work our
way up toward the mainstream:
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
They have no need to demonstrate anything openly to anyone. Including any
random people from this list.
That is true, but they make themselves look bad when they present frothy
advertisements at ICC17. It is embarrassing to watch. It is unprofessional.
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
I personally think that we need the public on our side and that means
taking demos and information to a new audience. But I guess it depends on
your desired outcome. If you just think of money then you may take a
different tactic than if you are
On Jul 10, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
This, I disagree with. Heat is the only thing that matters. Heat is
worth money. Money is what investors want. They don't care whether
it is nuclear or angel farts.
The source determines the engineering behavior, the life-time, and the
Why don't you call them?
2013/7/10 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
It they call me, I will accept to sign any honest NDA. I can design an
honest protocol to rule out fraud, but I know that my voice will convince
nobody who is not already convinced.
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
They don't need it. Trust me.
Google translator for Japanese gives Electron scanning microscope.
2013/7/10 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
That is true, but they make themselves look bad when they present frothy
advertisements at ICC17. It is embarrassing to watch. It is unprofessional.
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
re read what I wrote. I said a board room not a hotel room.
In that case I know nothing about it.
I personal resent you calling activities disgraceful and horrible.
I resent seeing people piss away $20 million.
I thought that Vortex rules
Yeah, give them a call. Let us know how they respond.
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Why don't you call them?
2013/7/10 Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com
It they call me, I will accept to sign any honest NDA. I can design an
honest protocol
You again do not check before replying.
You complained that DGT did not send you their data, yet now you say you are
drowning in data. Make up you mind.
NDA. Re read. I did not say for you to give your claimed big buck friends any
NDA information other than to let them know you are
This is a good reason to have a very hard time with this trade secret
approach that the LENR businesses guys are taking.
Think of the millions of years of life expectancy they could save if they
just disclosed everything they had and then tried to patent it, rather than
this trade secret
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:
This is a good reason to have a very hard time with this trade secret
approach that the LENR businesses guys are taking.
They have no choice. They cannot get patents.
This is one of the reasons why I don't think Rossi has anything. If he
Jed - question, do you have any patents? I do.
Alright, I see that in Europe there might not be a grace period as there is
elsewhere. Kinda bizarre. The patents I have are in the US.
But, anyways that's a pretty irrelevant detail. He could just disclose it
all in the patent as you said.
Anyways, as for being rejected, all patents (at
Errr, by all, I mean most patents. :) I got excited there.
Certainly all the patents I contributed to were initially rejected.
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 6:23 PM, blaze spinnaker
blazespinna...@gmail.comwrote:
Alright, I see that in Europe there might not be a grace period as there
is
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
You again do not check before replying.
You complained that DGT did not send you their data, yet now you say you
are drowning in data.
I am not complaining that DGT has not sent me data. I don't give a damn
about that. If they don't want me to know, I
At 07:34 PM 7/10/2013, you wrote:
DJ Cravens mailto:djcrav...@hotmail.comdjcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
I just did a search on LENR CANR and find 122
hits. I have papers, and people know them and
reference them. My guess is you will scrub them
now like Mitch S. But you keep saying these
Dr. Mitchell Swartz m...@theworld.com wrote:
== *The science papers we have written improving calorimetry
and describing how to achieve CF/LANR have been censored by Jed Rothwell.
*I, and we, have always given permission to have these papers listed
and shared.
No, you have not. You
When people ignore you, you blame them. I did not say people in general
ignore me. Just you. You say I have no papers and no one ref. them. Yet by
your own site: a search shows 115 listings from Cravens. I take that as an
indication of number of papers and references to them. I am not as
At 04:53 PM 7/4/2013, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:
In my electrolysis research, I found that the wire leads for my
control runs made a significant difference. Obviously, thinner wire
connecting to the joule heater resulted in less power being
dissipated in the joule heater and more
At 09:34 PM 7/10/2013, you wrote:
Dr. Mitchell Swartz mailto:m...@theworld.comm...@theworld.com wrote:
== The science papers we have written improving calorimetry
and describing how to achieve CF/LANR have been censored by Jed Rothwell.
I, and we, have always given permission to have
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
I disagree that only an engineer can understand a CF demo.
A scientists or an engineer. Ordinary people cannot. I have a lot of
dealing with ordinary people. They are not stupid, but this stuff is harder
than you realize. You have been dealing with it
What would I tell them? If they are real friends as you claim and they think
you trustworthy, then it should be simple enough to say something like Kim said
- that is, I have been there, I have seen their system, and it looks like they
have something. Stop the excuses.
I have never
blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote:
By your logic, the patent that Rossi has applied for is dead, kaput, and
can't be fixed.
I do not know enough about patent law to judge, but people have told me it
is dead, kaput, hopeless.
I hope for his sake that is not true.
I read his
Voice input and typos are fact of life for me.
Perhaps you should read and edit your material before you hit send.
You do not enough resources (sic)
You have a responsibility to get resources, succeed and to bring this
technology to the world, if it is within your power to do
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:19 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
There is even a link to a picture of one of my devices.
For the benefit of your critics, here is the link again:
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
What would I tell them? If they are real friends as you claim and they
think you trustworthy, then it should be simple enough to say
something like Kim said - that is, I have been there, I have seen their
system, and it looks like they have something.
Strange, you expect a write up of a demo before it happens.
You are not realistic.
D2
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 21:28:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
nothing, anywhere, ever about the kind of device you plan to
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Strange, you expect a write up of a demo before it happens.
OF COURSE I DO!!!
For goodness sake, haven't you rehearsed?!? Don't you know what the thing
will do? Assuming it works.
This is mind boggling!!! I cannot imagine anyone going to a conference or
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 22:21:47 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT or ECAT? Same Process?
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
I have never complained about lack of funding.
This is like saying you complain of thirst, not that you have no water.
You complain you cannot do the work.
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Voice input and typos are fact of life for me.
Perhaps you should read and edit your material before you hit send.
You do not enough resources (sic)
Meant: You do not HAVE enough resources.
Have telegraphic style. Often drop words. Not
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
*I am in favor any step (sic) *to promote that, including funding people
who hate money. It is a means to an end.
*Perhaps you should work on your style because I misunderstand you.*
Then you are obtuse, which is unbecoming of a professor. This is
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote:
Occurrence of a nuclear reaction is the only proof that matters. Once a
nuclear reaction is demonstrated to occur, making commercial energy only
requires good engineering.
I wish this were true, in and of itself. But
You obviously try to twist things.
Are you really expecting people to present papers and descriptions of demos
before the demos? No company does that.
Programmer?? For example, do you expect a programmer to post source code
before the public release and show? Or release a journal paper
I hesitate to put in my 2 cents worth, but this argument should be cooled down
a few notches. Both of you guys are making fine contributions to the field and
it would be much better for you to work together instead of against each other.
Dennis, I think you should take Jed up on his offer to
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote:
The fact that no (or few?) reactions are detected on the front side shows
that
the reaction is not a typical hot fusion reaction.
If this is a reference to the Chambers experiment in 1990, it is an
interesting detail that the
The hot fusion method that you describe has been explored for over 100
years using over 50 billion dollars. Several methods are being
explored because they have promise, but not the ones you note because
they have no promise. Hot fusion continues to receive support in an
attempt to
Jim P. Yes, that was sad. ( I actually thought the number was $30 M from
Motorola and $20M from State water heaters ). I wish I could make those beads.
I don't think that Jim could recreate them either.
But I now think that the layering of Cu then Ni and Pd , or Au and Pd was part
of the
I suspect that it is going to take a product at the local department stores to
convince the normal public that LENR is real. Once they see for themselves how
much money it saves them they will buy the products. It should be an easy
sales pitch if the operational costs are 10% of what is
I would not have expected any form of directionality when the input particles
are of such low energy compared to the outputs. I assumed that you were
describing an experiment where the exit direction was measured...my mistake.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Eric Walker
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Jim P. Yes, that was sad. ( I actually thought the number was $30 M from
Motorola and $20M from State water heaters ).
Was it that much? What a nightmare. I just remember hearing $20 million and
feeling SO AGGRAVATED. Yet another lost opportunity for
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:40 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I assumed that you were describing an experiment where the exit direction
was measured...my mistake.
You were right -- the setup was like this:
d beam --- | thin foil | --- MeV particles --- | Si detector |
So the
Patent rules in the U.S. have recently changed effective March 18, 2013
Priority is now first to file not first to invent
LENR when it finally becomes economically viable (its been real soon now
for 20yrs) will be an epic patent battle with
every half brained idea posted somewhere in random
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