Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
This, or something like, must be the explanation. The silver iodide-bromide layer is far too thin for an interference effect. It might also be a plasmon-polaritron effect which one might argue is the same thing. --- Original Message --- On Sunday, November 27th, 2022 at 9:08 PM, Robin wrote: > Hi, > > Silver atoms may arrange themselves in clusters of a size matching the > wavelength of the light. Then the clusters are > selective for (resonate at) that wavelength. > > > On Sun., Nov. 27, 2022, 2:58 p.m. MSF, foster...@protonmail.com wrote: > > > > > This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th > > > centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted > > > the > > > same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A > > > purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was > > > covered > > > with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate > > > would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. > > [snip] > Cloud storage:- > > Unsafe, Slow, Expensive > > ...pick any three.
Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
I don't remember reading anything about that. But in my personal experience, the plate reverts to a murky gray, with slightly darkened outlines of the colored areas. The original color of the over-exposed plate is sort of purplish black. MSf --- Original Message --- On Sunday, November 27th, 2022 at 8:54 PM, H LV wrote: > Wow... > When you say the colours faded do you mean the plate reverted to being > completely black again (i.e. its over exposed state)? > > Harry > > On Sun., Nov. 27, 2022, 2:58 p.m. MSF, wrote: > >> This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th >> centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted the >> same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A >> purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was covered >> with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate >> would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. This no >> doubt tantalized photographers with the idea of color photography, but the >> effect would eventually fade and the exposure times and light intensity >> requirements made that impractical. Further, there was no way to fix the >> image. The same effect can be demonstrated with so-called printing-out >> papers, silver chloride emulsions meant to be contact printed from negatives >> without the need for chemical development. >> >> So, basically, this is a demonstration of one field of endeavor not paying >> attention to developments (pun intended) in another. Besides, it's not nice >> to second guess Goethe. >> >> MSF >> >> --- Original Message --- >> On Saturday, November 26th, 2022 at 6:41 PM, H LV >> wrote: >> >>> This is a google english translation of a german article that was published >>> in December in 2021. >>> >>> The Ultraviolet Enlightenment >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/178aIZp1ts5J1HCvWuZCkdoDvwbzp8tm_xiPGdonvPM8/edit?usp=sharing >>> >>> (The original article is here >>> https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physik-mehr/entdeckung-des-uv-die-ultraviolette-erleuchtung-17687221.html) >>> >>> It is about Goethe and Ritter in the early 1800s when Goethe encouraged >>> Ritter to look for invisible radiation beyond the violet >>> end of the spectrum given that Herschel had just discovered evidence of >>> radiation below the red end of the spectrum using a thermometer. >>> Ritter was eventually credited with the discovery of UV light using a light >>> sensitive paper. >>> >>> However,as the article explains he did another experiment which was >>> inspired by Goethe's concept of polarity but to this >>> day the results have been dismissed as an error. Goethe predicted that if >>> UV light darkened the photo chemical paper, then infrared light should >>> lighten the same paper. Ritter reported finding this to be the case but >>> because the chemical process is irreversible subsequent scientists >>> have insisted that the _observation_ of lightning must have been an error. >>> Until 2021 no one had even attempted to replicate this simple experiment, >>> but now there is evidence that Ritter was probably correct in his >>> observation. However, a mystery remains as to why the paper should be >>> lightened. >>> (one chemist speculates the silver atoms are being rearranged so their >>> reflectivity changes). >>> >>> I am posting this as another example of how some observations can be >>> prematurely rejected on the basis of opinion instead of a proper follow up >>> investigation. In this case the observation is more than 200 years old! >>> >>> Harry
Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
Hi, Silver atoms may arrange themselves in clusters of a size matching the wavelength of the light. Then the clusters are selective for (resonate at) that wavelength. >On Sun., Nov. 27, 2022, 2:58 p.m. MSF, wrote: > >> >> This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th >> centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted the >> same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A >> purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was covered >> with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate >> would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. [snip] Cloud storage:- Unsafe, Slow, Expensive ...pick any three.
Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
Wow... When you say the colours faded do you mean the plate reverted to being completely black again (i.e. its over exposed state)? Harry On Sun., Nov. 27, 2022, 2:58 p.m. MSF, wrote: > > This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th > centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted the > same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A > purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was covered > with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate > would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. This no > doubt tantalized photographers with the idea of color photography, but the > effect would eventually fade and the exposure times and light intensity > requirements made that impractical. Further, there was no way to fix the > image. The same effect can be demonstrated with so-called printing-out > papers, silver chloride emulsions meant to be contact printed from > negatives without the need for chemical development. > > So, basically, this is a demonstration of one field of endeavor not paying > attention to developments (pun intended) in another. Besides, it's not nice > to second guess Goethe. > > MSF > > > > --- Original Message --- > On Saturday, November 26th, 2022 at 6:41 PM, H LV > wrote: > > This is a google english translation of a german article that was > published in December in 2021. > > The Ultraviolet Enlightenment > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/178aIZp1ts5J1HCvWuZCkdoDvwbzp8tm_xiPGdonvPM8/edit?usp=sharing > > (The original article is here > > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physik-mehr/entdeckung-des-uv-die-ultraviolette-erleuchtung-17687221.html > ) > > It is about Goethe and Ritter in the early 1800s when Goethe encouraged > Ritter to look for invisible radiation beyond the violet > end of the spectrum given that Herschel had just discovered evidence of > radiation below the red end of the spectrum using a thermometer. > Ritter was eventually credited with the discovery of UV light using a > light sensitive paper. > > However,as the article explains he did another experiment which was > inspired by Goethe's concept of polarity but to this > day the results have been dismissed as an error. Goethe predicted that if > UV light darkened the photo chemical paper, then infrared light should > lighten the same paper. Ritter reported finding this to be the case but > because the chemical process is irreversible subsequent scientists > have insisted that the _observation_ of lightning must have been an error. > Until 2021 no one had even attempted to replicate this simple experiment, > but now there is evidence that Ritter was probably correct in his > observation. However, a mystery remains as to why the paper should be > lightened. > (one chemist speculates the silver atoms are being rearranged so their > reflectivity changes). > > I am posting this as another example of how some observations can be > prematurely rejected on the basis of opinion instead of a proper follow up > investigation. In this case the observation is more than 200 years old! > > Harry > > >
Re: [Vo]:The Ultraviolet Enlightenment
This effect was studied extensively thoughout the 19th and early 20th centuries, but in another field. Early researchers in photography noted the same effect and more in their experiments with Daguerrotype plates. A purposely over-exposed plate would turn very dark. If the plate was covered with pieces of colored glass and re-exposed to bright sunlight, the plate would reproduce the colors through which the light was filtered. This no doubt tantalized photographers with the idea of color photography, but the effect would eventually fade and the exposure times and light intensity requirements made that impractical. Further, there was no way to fix the image. The same effect can be demonstrated with so-called printing-out papers, silver chloride emulsions meant to be contact printed from negatives without the need for chemical development. So, basically, this is a demonstration of one field of endeavor not paying attention to developments (pun intended) in another. Besides, it's not nice to second guess Goethe. MSF --- Original Message --- On Saturday, November 26th, 2022 at 6:41 PM, H LV wrote: > This is a google english translation of a german article that was published > in December in 2021. > > The Ultraviolet Enlightenment > https://docs.google.com/document/d/178aIZp1ts5J1HCvWuZCkdoDvwbzp8tm_xiPGdonvPM8/edit?usp=sharing > > (The original article is here > https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wissen/physik-mehr/entdeckung-des-uv-die-ultraviolette-erleuchtung-17687221.html) > > It is about Goethe and Ritter in the early 1800s when Goethe encouraged > Ritter to look for invisible radiation beyond the violet > end of the spectrum given that Herschel had just discovered evidence of > radiation below the red end of the spectrum using a thermometer. > Ritter was eventually credited with the discovery of UV light using a light > sensitive paper. > > However,as the article explains he did another experiment which was inspired > by Goethe's concept of polarity but to this > day the results have been dismissed as an error. Goethe predicted that if UV > light darkened the photo chemical paper, then infrared light should lighten > the same paper. Ritter reported finding this to be the case but because the > chemical process is irreversible subsequent scientists > have insisted that the _observation_ of lightning must have been an error. > Until 2021 no one had even attempted to replicate this simple experiment, but > now there is evidence that Ritter was probably correct in his observation. > However, a mystery remains as to why the paper should be lightened. > (one chemist speculates the silver atoms are being rearranged so their > reflectivity changes). > > I am posting this as another example of how some observations can be > prematurely rejected on the basis of opinion instead of a proper follow up > investigation. In this case the observation is more than 200 years old! > > Harry
Re: [Vo]:Expert Proposes a Method For Telling if We All Live in a Computer Program : ScienceAlert
This question is as old as computers and a college class mate wrote about this around 1975... The falsification is trivial as all mappings from reality to software are surjective that is a real= "nature state" is mapped to a range of real number values. (So the reverse fails to be unique) So it is basically impossible to model nature in deep detail. Our real physics happens in integer/number space - only math is real. J.W. On 27.11.2022 12:35, H LV wrote: "Computer. End program" On Tue., Nov. 22, 2022, 5:25 p.m. Terry Blanton, wrote: https://www.sciencealert.com/expert-proposes-a-method-for-telling-if-we-all-live-in-a-computer-program Can we falsify the existence of a simulated universe? -- Jürg Wyttenbach Bifangstr. 22 8910 Affoltern am Albis +41 44 760 14 18 +41 79 246 36 06
Re: [Vo]:Expert Proposes a Method For Telling if We All Live in a Computer Program : ScienceAlert
The actual shutdown routing... given the MADness of the War in Ukraine, seems to be rather evident and imminent. H LV wrote: "Computer. End program" On Tue., Nov. 22, 2022, 5:25 p.m. Terry Blanton, wrote: https://www.sciencealert.com/expert-proposes-a-method-for-telling-if-we-all-live-in-a-computer-program Can we falsify the existence of a simulated universe?
Re: [Vo]:Expert Proposes a Method For Telling if We All Live in a Computer Program : ScienceAlert
"Computer. End program" On Tue., Nov. 22, 2022, 5:25 p.m. Terry Blanton, wrote: > > https://www.sciencealert.com/expert-proposes-a-method-for-telling-if-we-all-live-in-a-computer-program > > > Can we falsify the existence of a simulated universe? >
