[Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
I'm please to release this document: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__Wi_DF2CjJNTMyZTdlYjAtYzM3OC00ZGFjLTlkMjAtOWFkYWExODI4NmQ3 AG
RE: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
What a crock ! I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this, and that you will see this crap pulled immediately - followed by strong legal action. Be glad you are in Oz, if you are... -Original Message- From: Aussie Guy E-Cat I'm please to release this document: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__Wi_DF2CjJNTMyZTdlYjAtYzM3OC00ZGFjLTlkMjA tOWFkYWExODI4NmQ3 AG
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this, and that you will see this crap pulled immediately - followed by strong legal action. That is incorrect. Bushnell is a public figure. Any government official is. What he says in public can be quoted by anyone for any purpose. Government officials have absolutely no copyright control over their utterances in connection with their official duties. Nearly every document published by NASA, the DoE and other government agencies is in the public domain, by definition. The public pays for them. You never see a copyright notice on such documents. There are, of course, secret government documents. That is another matter. In any Bushnell's comments were not secret. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this, and that you will see this crap pulled immediately - followed by strong legal action. That is incorrect. Bushnell is a public figure. Any government official is. What he says in public can be quoted by anyone for any purpose. Except that, if I am not mistaken, Bushnell was talking about cold fusion in general and not, as the lame brochure suggests, about the E-cat in particular. Using a quote inappropriately to mislead is probably not within their rights.
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
On 2011-11-25 18:00, Jones Beene wrote: I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this[...] I was thinking the same. That phrase has also been taken out of context. This brochure lacks substance by the way. There are no complete real photos of the 1MW power plant, very little technical info on it and almost nothing on the underlying processes other that it essentially runs on cold fusion. And who is Andrea Rossi? What exactly is an E-Cat? Why there's no mention of Focardi? What about patents? Certifications? Validations? Practical comparisons with competing energy sources? Wasn't cold fusion a scam ? And so on. This brochure needs much work. Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
From Beene What a crock ! I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this, and that you will see this crap pulled immediately - followed by strong legal action. Be glad you are in Oz, if you are... If I were in Bushnell's shoes I'd be pretty steamed right now. This is a google doc. Is this from www.hydrofusion.com ? I don't see a specific link to this advert on hydrofusion.com. (Maybe it's already been pulled.) Was it a blanket email? Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Jed sez: Jones Beene: I'm 99% certain that Bushnell has not authorized that his name be used for this, and that you will see this crap pulled immediately - followed by strong legal action. That is incorrect. Bushnell is a public figure. Any government official is. What he says in public can be quoted by anyone for any purpose. Government officials have absolutely no copyright control over their utterances in connection with their official duties. Nearly every document published by NASA, the DoE and other government agencies is in the public domain, by definition. The public pays for them. You never see a copyright notice on such documents. That may be so, but I bet Bushnell is still royally pissed. This may result in adverse commentary that in the short term is not likely to be complementary towards Rossi and the whole continuing eCat saga. I expect some kind of fallout. My two cents. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Hi, On 25-11-2011 18:37, Akira Shirakawa wrote: This brochure lacks substance by the way. There are no complete real photos of the 1MW power plant, very little technical info on it and almost nothing on the underlying processes other that it essentially runs on cold fusion. And who is Andrea Rossi? What exactly is an E-Cat? Why there's no mention of Focardi? What about patents? Certifications? Validations? Practical comparisons with competing energy sources? Wasn't cold fusion a scam ? And so on. This brochure needs much work. True from an engineering POV, but these type of brochures are usually the first to be released by Product Managers to attract very eager customers. After several revisions the brochure will most likely evolve into a more mature brochure (together with the e-cat itself) with a lot of info that engineers want to see. I've seen it happen in the course of several years with much less controversial products for new (ATT/Lucent Technologies) telecommunication technology as well. Kind regards, MoB
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Except that, if I am not mistaken, Bushnell was talking about cold fusion in general and not, as the lame brochure suggests, about the E-cat in particular. Using a quote inappropriately to mislead is probably not within their rights. I am not a lawyer but I have consulted with some experts in copyrights and IP, in connection with LENR-CANR.org. I have some knowledge of the rules. In my opinion it would be all-but-impossible for NASA or Bushnell to make this case. He was talking about cold fusion, and therefore by extension, about the Rossi device. I think any judge or any reasonable person would agree the Rossi device is cold fusion. Even if Rossi himself says it isn't everyone will agree that it is. If a government researcher says MPP architecture will have a profound effect on computers anyone making anything like an MPP processor can quote the researcher without fear that it is inappropriate or misleading. Even if the researcher in question has never heard of this MPP processor, or does think much of it, I am sure the statement can be used. OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: If I were in Bushnell's shoes I'd be pretty steamed right now. Maybe, but he has no recourse to do anything about it. Actually, he strikes me as a gung-ho guy who probably would not mind. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Except that, if I am not mistaken, Bushnell was talking about cold fusion in general and not, as the lame brochure suggests, about the E-cat in particular. Using a quote inappropriately to mislead is probably not within their rights. I am not a lawyer but I have consulted with some experts in copyrights and IP, in connection with LENR-CANR.org. I have some knowledge of the rules. In my opinion it would be all-but-impossible for NASA or Bushnell to make this case. He was talking about cold fusion, and therefore by extension, about the Rossi device. I think any judge or any reasonable person would agree the Rossi device is cold fusion. Even if Rossi himself says it isn't everyone will agree that it is. Ah yes. But maybe the Sniffex case (fake explosive detector) gives a clue as to how some judges proceed. At the preliminary hearing of the case in which Sniffex sued Randi for libel when he called the device a fraud, the judge required Sniffex to bring a device into court to be demonstrated in front of experts. They refused and therefore had to drop the lawsuit. Perhaps in order for the brochure maker to prevail, they'd have to produce a working E-cat and have it tested independently by experts and have it pronounced genuine cold fusion. Wouldn't that be fun? Sniffex reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniffex
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Dennis Bushnell gave a very pro-LENR presentation at the NASA LENR Workshop held at GRC on September 22, 2011. I think he may become a powerful ally of LENR. There is no hint that Bushnell thinks the Rossi E-Cat may be a scam--only that he has a very early model of a very important new energy source. - Brad
RE: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Ecat sez: Dennis Bushnell gave a very pro-LENR presentation at the NASA LENR Workshop held at GRC on September 22, 2011. I think he may become a powerful ally of LENR. There is no hint that Bushnell thinks the Rossi E-Cat may be a scam--only that he has a very early model of a very important new energy source. Jed sed: Actually, he strikes me as a gung-ho guy who probably would not mind. Hope both of you are right. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: Ah yes. But maybe the Sniffex case (fake explosive detector) gives a clue as to how some judges proceed. At the preliminary hearing of the case in which Sniffex sued Randi for libel when he called the device a fraud . . . You have a talent for non sequiturs. You are talking about a COMPLETELY UNRELATED topic. To review: Topic 1. The use of Bushnell's statement in this brochure, and how that might be treated in a court case. Topic 2. A hypothetical court case relating to whether the Rossi device is real or not, and whether Rossi or Hydrofusion is committing fraud. If Hydrofusion (or Rossi) are committing fraud, the fact that they quote Bushnell does not make that more of crime, or less of a crime. This quote from Bushnell would have no bearing on charges of fraud. They might quote any number of scientists praising cold fusion. As long as they do not invent fake quotes or fake endorsements, that would be irrelevant. The relevant evidence in a court case about fraud would be contracts, cancelled checks, statements from Rossi or Hydrofusion to the customer, and so on. Perhaps in order for the brochure maker to prevail, they'd have to produce a working E-cat and have it tested independently by experts . . . No one can stop Hydrofusion from quoting Bushnell, fraud or no fraud. If the brochure has lies (false advertising) or it is used to commit fraud, that is an entirely unrelated matter, as I said. The worst that can happen if Bushnell objects to this would be that he publishes a statement condemning the brochure, and that makes Hydrofusion look stupid. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Official 1 MW E-Cat brochure is released
I wrote: You have a talent for non sequiturs. You are talking about a COMPLETELY UNRELATED topic. To review: Topic 1. The use of Bushnell's statement in this brochure, and how that might be treated in a court case. I meant in a court case in which Bushnell or NASA is suing to have the statement removed. Their right to have it removed would not be contingent on the company using the brochure for a nefarious purpose. Topic 2. A hypothetical court case relating to whether the Rossi device is real or not, and whether Rossi or Hydrofusion is committing fraud. I mean in a court case in which the company is accused of fraud. The brochure might be entered as evidence of fraud, but the fact that it quotes Bushnell would not be. Anyone can quote him. I could put his statement on the front of LENR-CANR.org with impunity. A web site opposed to cold fusion could also freely quote him. (I do not know of any web sites opposed to cold fusion other than Wikipedia and Robert Park's columns.) - Jed
