On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
Joshua wrote:
“… And a top academic career would be a chair at a university or director
of a research institute.”
** **
Well, Josh, by your own definition, Dr. Robert Duncan, Vice Chancellor of
On Dec 19, 2011, at 11:36 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
I didn't invent the name. It was called the Fleischmann-Pons
Effect for years. Google it. All I'm suggesting is that we should
honour the effect they discovered with their names, even if we
don't know how and why it happens. No point
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Christ man high school students replicated PF with both excess heat and
transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
This reminded me of a Dilbert cartoon (since you seem interested in
Tiresome accusations like this ought to be banned from this list. Have you ever
once seen a paycheck cut for the job of Internet trolling? Really? Really?
Because it sounds like an awesome part time job, frankly.
On Dec 19, 2011, at 8:10, Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:
McKubre believes in the Conservation of Miracles. I agree with him and
would add my version: Different dog, same leg action. What is at the
heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For all the early years
the effect was called the Fleischmann-Pons Effect. Why change it now?
I say give
Hello gang,
As a friend of Abd Lomax, I am keenly interested in his evolving plans
over the last two years to make a cheap do-it-yourself-at-home kit for
replicating the detection of neutron tracks in plastic film adjacent
to a 50 ml thin wall plastic cell with a palladium chloride and
lithium
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Gene went from a top academic career to working in a warehouse at night
to feed his family.
He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career, no.
Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time.
Too much
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
He sure knew what he was getting into. Fleischmann wrote a lighthearted
account of this, quoted in Beaudette's book. It starts off with Arrhenius
in 1883. He was one of the most important electrochemists in history,
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Jed Rothwell
jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
warehouse at night to feed his family.
He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
no.
Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it
Cude what does this have to do with FP having been replicated in many
labs all over the world? You need to accept that the FPE is real and
move on to working out why it happens. Oh BTW you just might apologize
to FP for the treatment they received by you and your mates.
Would you please
I state again. 1 professor, 1 grad and 2 high school students replicated
FP in a MIT lab in front of over 100 ICCF 10 participants in 2002 and
2003. The observed excess heat and transmutations. The FPE is real and
can be easily replicated. Sorry but I have a Royal Flush and you have a
pair of
On Dec 18, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
McKubre believes in the Conservation of Miracles. I agree with
him and would add my version: Different dog, same leg action.
What is at the heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For
all the early years the effect was called
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Cude what does this have to do with FP having been replicated in many
labs all over the world?
They haven't been. McKubre himself has said that no one has achieved
quantitative reproducibility. And interlay
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
I state again. 1 professor, 1 grad and 2 high school students replicated
FP in a MIT lab in front of over 100 ICCF 10 participants in 2002 and
2003. The observed excess heat and transmutations.
It wasn't enough
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the exact
process that caused Effect A and Effect B to have a different pathway.
Until that time, if it ever occurs, I feel Different Dog, Same Leg
Action is the road to follow. I have no problem if say WL is proven to
be the
I can't believe you really think that is a correct assessment. FP have
been replicated. Just have a read through Jed's archives. Christ man
high school students replicated PF with both excess heat and
transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
Where you there?
On Dec 18, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
McKubre believes in the Conservation of Miracles. I agree with
him and would add my version: Different dog, same leg action.
What is at the heart of the FPE drives all the effects we see. For
all the early years the effect was called
Did the DOE visit the students results? I suggest not. Did they sit in
front of a SEM and see the transmutated products? I suggest they did not
and never left their office. Sorry but real word results trumps DOE
theory anytime. As far as replicating PF, did you actually read the
test results
On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the
exact process that caused Effect A and Effect B to have a different
pathway. Until that time, if it ever occurs, I feel Different Dog,
Same Leg Action is the road to
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote:
Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
warehouse at night to feed his family.
He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
no.
In my opinion, being the science writer at MIT puts you at the top of your
Jed Rothwell wrote:
You did not know him. You did not spend weeks at his house, as I
did. You do know what he accomplished, or what difficulties he
faced. So I suggest you stop making ignorant assertions about
him.
I think you have Cude killfiled, or you would know that he wrote
what you
Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:
You have seen the high school students doing FPE excess heat experiments at
MIT during ICCF-10?
I loved those kids! They know more chemistry than I'll ever master. But the
experiment was far from definitive. I would call it suggestive, and
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote:
faced. So I suggest you stop making ignorant assertions about
him.
I think you have Cude killfiled, or you would know that he wrote
what you are replying to.
I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
I apologize if I mixed you up with him. I
Jed Rothwell wrote:
I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
I apologize if I mixed you up with him. I wasn't paying much
attention to the top of the message, or who wrote it. Sorry
about that.
That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
rather than you or the other
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote:
That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
rather than you or the other optimists here.
Then what is the reason for your presence on this list? To turn
optimism into pessimism? To fix those optimists?
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Vorl Bek
vorl@antichef.com wrote:
That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him
rather than you or the other optimists here.
Then what is the reason for your presence on this list? To turn
optimism into pessimism? To fix those
Mary Yugo wrote:
By the way, why don't you contact Jed personally about his experience
with Defkalion and trying to arrange a visit with them.
There is nothing to be said about that. It was delayed and delayed, and
it appears to have petered out. Delays, confusion and cancellations are
not
What the heck is stopping someone from taking private money and doing research
in their basement?
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only
Horace it was known as the Fleischmann-Pons Effect for years. Check
Jed's archives.
AG
On 12/20/2011 12:14 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Dec 19, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Horace I suggest that call should be made when we have nailed the
exact process that caused Effect A
I didn't invent the name. It was called the Fleischmann-Pons Effect
for years. Google it. All I'm suggesting is that we should honour the
effect they discovered with their names, even if we don't know how and
why it happens. No point in inventing a new name for an effect that
already has a
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Christ man high school students replicated PF with both excess heat and
transmutations, in a MIT lab and in front of over 100 ICCF 10 attendees?
And what did those 100 people see? A power supply pumping 3 A into
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:43 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
Did the DOE visit the students results? I suggest not. Did they sit in
front of a SEM and see the transmutated products? I suggest they did not
and never left their office.
I suggest you didn't either.
Sorry
You skipped over the bit about the up and down transmutations they found
on the cathodes. As for the temperature, you need to read the reports
and see the photographs. It is not what you said.
On 12/20/2011 10:15 AM, Joshua Cude wrote:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote:
Gene went from a top academic career to working in a
warehouse at night to feed his family.
He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career,
no.
In
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind.
What a coincidence. Your posts all go to a special file too: my
must-reply-to file. In a way, it's a kill file, too. Unfortunately, I can't
always keep up with your
Joshua wrote:
. And a top academic career would be a chair at a university or director of
a research institute.
Well, Josh, by your own definition, Dr. Robert Duncan, Vice Chancellor of
Research at Univ of Missouri, would then most definitely qualify as top
academic career, and he was
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
It is not that big a hurdle. If you know a corporation that has money, I
expect the university would happy to arrange something.
It wouldn't hurt to fill out this form:
On 2011-12-18 17:18, Terry Blanton wrote:
It wouldn't hurt to fill out this form:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/innovation/innovative_thinking/game_changer/submit_idea/
This might actually be a good idea.
By the way, until Krivit leaked that email from the ISCMNS mailing list,
I've never
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
2011/12/18 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Two or three people have contacted me suggesting we raise funds for Miley.
I appreciate the sentiments, and I am sure George would too, but as far as
I know universities only accept money
On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 11:09 -0500, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Two or three people have contacted me suggesting we raise funds for
Miley. I appreciate the sentiments, and I am sure George would too,
but as far as I know universities only accept money from official
sources such as corporations,
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion would be
career suicide. Even talking about it. She would be fired and would never
get another job. Even
Wow that's a pretty bleak and discouraging assessment Jed, you must be
tremendously frustrated. I am just thankful that I am such a LENR
neophyte. Fingers crossed it appears the genie is now out of the bottle
and someone (Celani, Miley, Piantelli, Arata, McKubre, Ahern, Rossi,
Brillouin,
I wrote:
Even Bockris was nearly fired.
See:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BockrisJaccountabi.pdf
Some outlandish research, but someone's gotta try it:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BockrisJthehistory.pdf
Miles -- a distinguished fellow of the institute -- was reassigned as a
I agree with your analysis.
stupidity, selfishness, greed, conformism, is the main result of applying
Occam razor
2011/12/18 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
There is no conspiracy against cold fusion but there are sure are a lot of
nasty people trying to crush it, aren't there? As Bill
On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion
would be career suicide. Even talking about it. She
On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, among LENR researchers, who is not old, or very old?
The ones who are dead.
Only old people can do this. For a young researcher cold fusion
would be career suicide. Even talking about it. She
How about creating a foundation for distributing grants to researchers
in the field of LENR?
Of course the founding would come from private individuals and institutions.
Would that make sense?
mic
2011/12/18 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
On Dec 18, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Jed Rothwell
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:
One lasting achievement of Rossi's genius at generating free publicity may
have been to bring young people into the field.
I hope that will be the outcome. It hasn't happened yet.
The timing of all this is unfortunate. Should an ignominious
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have invested
a lot of time, effort and skin in creating LENR-CANR.org You kept the
LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked to put out the
flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would never be found.
On 12/19/2011
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
How about creating a foundation for distributing grants to researchers
in the field of LENR?
Of course the founding would come from private individuals and
institutions.
Would that make sense?
mic
I think this is a good idea.
The
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have
invested a lot of time, effort and skin in creating LENR-CANR.org
You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked
to put out the flame and to bury it in an
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:
If LENR research is suppressed in the US then the US will be the worse off
for it.
If?!? What do you mean if? It is already as suppressed as anything can
be! There are not more than a 6 or 8 researchers in the U.S., and they are
all being paid for
The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets the money.
As many other foundations do.
If someone does not agree with a foundation politics, then he can make
a better one.
The good thing of LENR is that however expensive the research is, it
is to a level that it can avoid
On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets the
money.
As many other foundations do.
If someone does not agree with a foundation politics, then he can make
a better one.
The good thing of LENR is that however expensive
Horace,
Your plan has a much broader scope IMHO, would be nice some politician
were able to understand it and apply it...
mic
2011/12/19 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:06 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
The problem is in the methodology used to determine who gets
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:
You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked to put
out the flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would never be found.
Many others have made efforts of similar magnitude, even risking their
lives and health.
From Jed
...
Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time. I think it traumatized Pons.
It did not bother Fleischmann as much because he is a tough, cynical
person who had nightmare experiences during WWII. The Gestapo beat his
father to death, and he himself barely escaped. He told me that he
Wow!
Can't we start an open source development of CF?
2011/12/18 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net
From Jed
...
Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time. I think it traumatized Pons.
It did not bother Fleischmann as much because he is a tough, cynical
person
One way to remember their achievement would be to rename LENR to the
Fleischmann-Pons Effect (FPE). ALL FPE devices should include it in
their name. Leonardo's E-Cat then becomes the Leonardo FPE E-Cat device.
Defkalion's Hyperion then becomes the Defkalion FPE Hyperion device.
Jed's web site
On Dec 18, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Michele Comitini wrote:
Horace,
Your plan has a much broader scope IMHO, would be nice some politician
were able to understand it and apply it...
mic
Yes it would have been nice. I think Hillary Clinton had some
similar plans , but was not elected. She
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote:
He knew he would be vilified and ridiculed for the rest of his life.
He went into it knowing what would happen. That was an act of courage.
But as he said, it was nothing like running for you life at age 13.
Mind you, it
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it
up some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it
again. And you wonder why I have no time for most university chalk heads.
On
Here is a bit of comic relief:
http://www.cfeis.com/images/pseudoscepsticks_cartoon.jpg
On 12/19/2011 10:13 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Dec 18, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote:
Jed you underestimate the contribution you have made. You have
invested a lot of time, effort and skin
Aussie Guy E-Cat aussieguy.e...@gmail.com wrote:
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it again.
The good news is that
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
This is so wrong as to make me very upset. I'll do anything I can to get
hold of a FPE device from Leonardo or Defkalion or who ever and shove it up
some FPE deniers back side so far the sun will never shine on it
So you don't think the way FP were treated and the fact that
replication results were either forged or ignored was OK? BTW Mary we
are still testing and developing a FPE device. Many have given us
encouragement and assistance. Jed's archives are a Aladdin's Cave of FPE
wonders. Will I get my
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
aussieguy.e...@gmail.comwrote:
So you don't think the way FP were treated and the fact that replication
results were either forged or ignored was OK?
But that makes no sense. If it were possible to replicate FP and build on
it, there are
On Dec 18, 2011, at 4:01 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote:
You kept the LENR flame visible and alive when many others worked
to put out the flame and to bury it in an unmarked grave that would
never be found.
Many others have made efforts of similar
On 12/19/2011 5:19 PM, Mary Yugo wrote:
If it were possible to replicate FP and build on it, there are
thousands of people and companies who would have.
They have been replicated. In many labs all around the world. Try
searching in Jed's archives. Have you not listened to anything Jed has
said
Well said Horace, well said.
On 12/19/2011 5:46 PM, Horace Heffner wrote:
I should have said: However, when all is said and done, I expect the
creation and maintenance of LENR-CANR.org will prove to be the most
important contribution to the field, with the exception of those of
the founding
I am not betting for you if you think you're getting one from Rossi or
Defkalion!
And if you are wrong? As you know I'm talking to DGT to do a factory
visit. Just might talk Leonardo in one as well.
I would be delighted to be wrong about Rossi, Defkalion and your plans to
visit them and to
You have seen the high school students doing FPE excess heat experiments
at MIT during ICCF-10? They also found transmutated Silver:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/Experiments.htm (bout 60% of the way down) and
here:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/ICCF10.htm#Photos (Picture of our
Jed is 2nd
The use of the term FPE is misleading and confusing.
The Wright brothers invented the first controlled flight. It would
be nonsensical and misleading to call every kind of winged aircraft a
Wright machine, not distinguishing between a 747 and a piper cub. The
FP protocol was Pd-D low
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