Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 12:44 AM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 10:36 AM Ryosuke Niwa > wrote: > > By the way, do you know what the status / interests at Mozilla? Given > WebKit's painting / navigation behavior / implementation is still pretty

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 10:36 AM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > By the way, do you know what the status / interests at Mozilla? Given > WebKit's painting / navigation behavior / implementation is still pretty > close to Blink, it would be a good idea to reach out to Mozilla to make > sure whatever in

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 12:31 AM Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 10:18 AM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > >> Sorry for the delay. I had other other things to take care of first. >> >> Based on the discussion we had (between Maciej, Simon, Alan, and I), we >> should take the following

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 10:18 AM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > Sorry for the delay. I had other other things to take care of first. > > Based on the discussion we had (between Maciej, Simon, Alan, and I), we > should take the following items into account for WebKit's first meaningful > paint heuristics:

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

Sorry for the delay. I had other other things to take care of first. Based on the discussion we had (between Maciej, Simon, Alan, and I), we should take the following items into account for WebKit's first meaningful paint heuristics: - Background image - SVG images - "Contentful" canvas

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 2:37 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > > On Mar 1, 2020, at 4:19 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > OK, to summarize what I got from this > - we want the spec and webkit painting to be as close as possible > - The spec needs to be clearer/less buggy about a few things, such as >

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Mar 1, 2020, at 4:19 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 1:18 AM Maciej Stachowiak > wrote: > > >> On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Noam Rosenthal > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:21 AM Maciej

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 1:18 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > > On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:21 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > >> >> >> On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: >> >> >>> The first visually non-empty milestone almost

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:21 AM Maciej Stachowiak > wrote: > > >> On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Noam Rosenthal > > wrote: >> >> >> The first visually non-empty milestone almost

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:21 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > > On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > >> The first visually non-empty milestone almost always happens way before >> this point. The above is just a fallback to make sure we eventually hit >> this milestone. For

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Mar 1, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > The first visually non-empty milestone almost always happens way before this > point. The above is just a fallback to make sure we eventually hit this > milestone. For example, if a document is totally blank even after loading the >

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> > > The first visually non-empty milestone almost always happens way before > this point. The above is just a fallback to make sure we eventually hit > this milestone. For example, if a document is totally blank even after > loading the document and all subresources, we want to paint it instead

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Feb 27, 2020, at 3:41 AM, Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:46 PM Noam Rosenthal > wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:17 PM Yoav Weiss > wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:33 PM Ryosuke Niwa

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:46 PM Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:17 PM Yoav Weiss wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:33 PM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: >> >>> >>> I don't think we should do that. For starters, Chrome's painting >>> strategy while loading a web page is

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 11:47 AM Noam Rosenthal wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:17 PM Yoav Weiss wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:33 PM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: >> >>> >>> I don't think we should do that. For starters, Chrome's painting >>> strategy while loading a web page is

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 12:17 PM Yoav Weiss wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:33 PM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > >> >> I don't think we should do that. For starters, Chrome's painting strategy >> while loading a web page is very different from that of Safari / WebKit. We >> would freeze the

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:33 PM Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:54 AM Noam Rosenthal wrote: > >> (resending from correct address) >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: >> >>> >>> Some quick comments: >>> >> >>> the definition of First Contentful Paint

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:00 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > > On Feb 26, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:29 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > >> >> >> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Noam Rosenthal >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Feb 26, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:29 AM Maciej Stachowiak > wrote: > > >> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Noam Rosenthal > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:54 AM Noam Rosenthal wrote: > (resending from correct address) > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > >> >> Some quick comments: >> > >> the definition of First Contentful Paint here in the spec: < >>

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:29 AM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > > On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Noam Rosenthal > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > >> >> Some quick comments: >> > >> the definition of First Contentful Paint here in the spec: < >>

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:29 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > I also suggest to start with "first-paint" as it's perhaps a bit less > "internal" than FCP, and can provide a performance-regression metric with a > lesser degree of risk regarding exposing internals / privacy. > > > First paint that’s

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Noam Rosenthal > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej Stachowiak > wrote: > > Some quick comments: > > the definition of First Contentful Paint here in the spec: >

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

(resending from correct address) On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:08 PM Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > Some quick comments: > > the definition of First Contentful Paint here in the spec: < > https://www.w3.org/TR/paint-timing/#sec-terminology> does not match the > definition stated at

Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

Some quick comments: I am concerned that the definitions of these paint milestones have engine-dependent assumptions, and some may not be spelled out in the spec. For example, the definition of First Contentful Paint here in the spec: does

[webkit-dev] WebKit position on Paint Timing / (first paint, first contentful paint)

Hola I was approached by the Wikimedia foundation to implement the paint timing API for WebKit (yay). I think this is a good feature to have for webkit, and I wanted to hear thoughts about it before I begin. The feature was enabled in Chrome for quite a while, and is potentially very useful for