Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Frédéric Wang]

On 10/06/2019 17:31, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
>
> Since SVG WG resolved to remove it, has it in fact been removed from
> the SVG spec?

Right, compare SVG 2 (W3C Recommendation 04 October 2018):

https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/types.html#InterfaceSVGTests

and SVG 1.1 (W3C Recommendation 16 August 2011):

https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/types.html#InterfaceSVGTests/
/

-- 
Frédéric Wang

___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Maciej Stachowiak]

The one remaining thing we could potentially worry about is platform-specific 
content, like books or content embedded in apps. But given what 
SVGTests.hasExtension() is supposed to do, that seems very unlikely.

Since SVG WG resolved to remove it, has it in fact been removed from the SVG 
spec?

Regards,
Maciej



> On Jun 10, 2019, at 2:12 AM, Philip Jägenstedt  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, here's the original intent to remove it from Chromium:
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-dev/Ae_lmov16_o/Wa5XhHFoAAAJ
>  
> 
> 
> We had use counters, and I wrote "Usage is zero for all of them."
> 
> When concerned about usage in the wild, the tool we usually use for Chromium 
> is httparchive, currently containing ~460k pages. I just did a quick search 
> and found 230 matches for ".hasExtension(". But most are ".hasExtension()" 
> and obviously not use of this API. A search for the regexp 
> r'\.hasExtension\([^)]' gives only 34 matches, listed here:
> https://gist.github.com/foolip/5081f13794baafcd400d8630778dad86 
> 
> 
> A larger CSV with the bodies included:
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1neFKBtmyjOLaRb_sppP3cmMeFEXfiGqr/view?usp=sharing
>  
> 
> 
> Skimming that, I can't find any real usage of SVG's hasExtension, it seems to 
> be mostly utility code around file extensions.
> 
> Ryosuke, does that address the concern of existing content, or is there 
> anything else you'd check?
> 
> Note that in the case of Range's detach, I don't think anyone made an attempt 
> to remove it:
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14591 
> 
> 
> There are 865,911 resources (more than there are pages) matching ".detach()" 
> in httparchive, probably also mostly not real usage, but still putting it in 
> a very different situation than hasExtension :)
> 
> HTH
> 
> On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Ryosuke Niwa  > wrote:
> The concern here isn't with the future versions of Edge or Firefox but rather 
> with the content that may be relying on this feature even unintentionally.
> Removing a JS method or object is very high risk because that could result in 
> an immediate JS exception and break a key functionality of a website.
> 
> This is why HTML and DOM standards has a bunch of methods that don't do 
> anything like Range's detach: https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-range-detach 
> 
> 
> - R. Niwa
> 
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 11:54 AM Frédéric Wang  > wrote:
> Patch for Firefox was uploaded 4 years ago and they announced plan for 
> removal at that time. We pinged Mozilla some weeks ago about it, they landed 
> the patch and announced it:
> 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1133175 
> 
> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2019/hasextension-has-been-removed-from-some-svg-interfaces/
>  
> 
> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2015/several-properties-will-be-removed-from-svgsvgelement/
>  
> 
> 
> I didn't check Edge, but Microsoft is migrating to Chromium so that's not 
> going to be there in future versions.
> 
> On 07/06/2019 20:40, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
>> Does Edge support it? When did Firefox remove this feature?
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:55 AM Frédéric Wang > > wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to lack 
>> of use and being a poor API.
>> It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from Firefox 
>> recently.
>> 
>> I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that feature. 
>> Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal: 
>> 
>> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Frédéric Wang
>> ___
>> webkit-dev mailing list
>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org 
>> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev 
>> 
>> -- 
>> - R. Niwa
> 
> -- 
> Frédéric Wang
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org 
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev 
> 
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> 

Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Philip Jägenstedt]

FWIW, here's the original intent to remove it from Chromium:
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msg/blink-dev/Ae_lmov16_o/Wa5XhHFoAAAJ

We had use counters, and I wrote "Usage is zero for all of them."

When concerned about usage in the wild, the tool we usually use for
Chromium is httparchive, currently containing ~460k pages. I just did a
quick search and found 230 matches for ".hasExtension(". But most are
".hasExtension()" and obviously not use of this API. A search for the
regexp r'\.hasExtension\([^)]' gives only 34 matches, listed here:
https://gist.github.com/foolip/5081f13794baafcd400d8630778dad86

A larger CSV with the bodies included:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1neFKBtmyjOLaRb_sppP3cmMeFEXfiGqr/view?usp=sharing

Skimming that, I can't find any real usage of SVG's hasExtension, it seems
to be mostly utility code around file extensions.

Ryosuke, does that address the concern of existing content, or is there
anything else you'd check?

Note that in the case of Range's detach, I don't think anyone made an
attempt to remove it:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14591

There are 865,911 resources (more than there are pages) matching
".detach()" in httparchive, probably also mostly not real usage, but still
putting it in a very different situation than hasExtension :)

HTH

On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:

> The concern here isn't with the future versions of Edge or Firefox but
> rather with the content that may be relying on this feature even
> unintentionally.
> Removing a JS method or object is very high risk because that could result
> in an immediate JS exception and break a key functionality of a website.
>
> This is why HTML and DOM standards has a bunch of methods that don't do
> anything like Range's detach:
> https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-range-detach
>
> - R. Niwa
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 11:54 AM Frédéric Wang  wrote:
>
>> Patch for Firefox was uploaded 4 years ago and they announced plan for
>> removal at that time. We pinged Mozilla some weeks ago about it, they
>> landed the patch and announced it:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1133175
>>
>> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2019/hasextension-has-been-removed-from-some-svg-interfaces/
>>
>> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2015/several-properties-will-be-removed-from-svgsvgelement/
>>
>> I didn't check Edge, but Microsoft is migrating to Chromium so that's not
>> going to be there in future versions.
>>
>> On 07/06/2019 20:40, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
>>
>> Does Edge support it? When did Firefox remove this feature?
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:55 AM Frédéric Wang  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> 4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to 
>>> lack of use and being a poor API.
>>> It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from Firefox 
>>> recently.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that feature. 
>>> Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal:
>>> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frédéric Wang
>>>
>>> ___
>>> webkit-dev mailing list
>>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
>>> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>>>
>> --
>> - R. Niwa
>>
>>
>> --
>> Frédéric Wang
>>
>> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Ryosuke Niwa]

The concern here isn't with the future versions of Edge or Firefox but
rather with the content that may be relying on this feature even
unintentionally.
Removing a JS method or object is very high risk because that could result
in an immediate JS exception and break a key functionality of a website.

This is why HTML and DOM standards has a bunch of methods that don't do
anything like Range's detach: https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-range-detach

- R. Niwa

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 11:54 AM Frédéric Wang  wrote:

> Patch for Firefox was uploaded 4 years ago and they announced plan for
> removal at that time. We pinged Mozilla some weeks ago about it, they
> landed the patch and announced it:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1133175
>
> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2019/hasextension-has-been-removed-from-some-svg-interfaces/
>
> https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2015/several-properties-will-be-removed-from-svgsvgelement/
>
> I didn't check Edge, but Microsoft is migrating to Chromium so that's not
> going to be there in future versions.
>
> On 07/06/2019 20:40, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
>
> Does Edge support it? When did Firefox remove this feature?
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:55 AM Frédéric Wang  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> 4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to lack 
>> of use and being a poor API.
>> It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from Firefox 
>> recently.
>>
>> I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that feature. 
>> Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal:
>> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652
>>
>> --
>> Frédéric Wang
>>
>> ___
>> webkit-dev mailing list
>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
>> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>>
> --
> - R. Niwa
>
>
> --
> Frédéric Wang
>
>
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Frédéric Wang]

Patch for Firefox was uploaded 4 years ago and they announced plan for
removal at that time. We pinged Mozilla some weeks ago about it, they
landed the patch and announced it:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1133175
https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2019/hasextension-has-been-removed-from-some-svg-interfaces/
https://www.fxsitecompat.com/en-CA/docs/2015/several-properties-will-be-removed-from-svgsvgelement/

I didn't check Edge, but Microsoft is migrating to Chromium so that's
not going to be there in future versions.

On 07/06/2019 20:40, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
> Does Edge support it? When did Firefox remove this feature?
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:55 AM Frédéric Wang  > wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> 4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to 
> lack of use and being a poor API.
> It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from 
> Firefox recently.
>
> I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that 
> feature. Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal: 
>
> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652
>
> -- 
> Frédéric Wang
>
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org 
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
> -- 
> - R. Niwa


-- 
Frédéric Wang

___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

Re: [webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Ryosuke Niwa]

Does Edge support it? When did Firefox remove this feature?

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:55 AM Frédéric Wang  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to lack 
> of use and being a poor API.
> It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from Firefox 
> recently.
>
> I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that feature. 
> Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal:
> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652
>
> --
> Frédéric Wang
>
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
-- 
- R. Niwa
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

[webkit-dev] Remove SVGTests.hasExtension?

[Frédéric Wang]

Hi,

4 years ago, the SVG WG resolved to remove SVGTests.hasExtension due to lack of 
use and being a poor API.
It was removed from Chromium at that time and has been removed from Firefox 
recently.

I'm not sure whether the WebKit community is willing to keep that feature. 
Anyway I opened a bug entry to track possible removal: 

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=198652

-- 
Frédéric Wang

___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev