Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Julian Reschke
Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: ... This is why I was thinking about somewhat data-rdfa-about, data-rdfa-property, data-rdfa-content and so on, so that, for the purposes of an RDFa processor working on top of HTML5 UAs (perhaps in a test phase, if needed at all, of course), an element

Re: [whatwg] Fuzzbot (Firefox RDFa semantics processor) (was: Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa)

2009-01-09 Thread Manu Sporny
Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: That is, choosing a proper level of integration for RDF(a) support into a web browser might divide success from failure. I don't know what's the best possible level, but I guess the deepest may be the worst, thus starting from an external support through out

[whatwg] Origins, reprise

2009-01-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
I've recently come across another issue with the origin definition. Right now, this says: 1) If url does not use a server-based naming authority, or if parsing url failed, or if url is not an absolute URL, then return a new globally unique identifier. 2) Return the tuple (scheme, host,

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Julian Reschke julian.resc...@gmx.de wrote: Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: ... This is why I was thinking about somewhat data-rdfa-about, data-rdfa-property, data-rdfa-content and so on, so that, for the purposes of an RDFa processor working on top of HTML5

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Julian Reschke
Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: *If* we want to support RDFa, why not add the attributes the way they are already named??? Because the issue is that we don't yet know if we want to support RDFa. That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody's given a useful problem statement yet, so we can't evaluate

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Julian Reschke wrote: Because the issue is that we don't yet know if we want to support RDFa. That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody's given a useful problem statement yet, so we can't evaluate whether there's a problem we need to solve, or how we should solve it. For the record: I

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
Julian Reschke ha scritto: Calogero Alex Baldacchino wrote: ... This is why I was thinking about somewhat data-rdfa-about, data-rdfa-property, data-rdfa-content and so on, so that, for the purposes of an RDFa processor working on top of HTML5 UAs (perhaps in a test phase, if needed at all,

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Ben Adida b...@adida.net wrote: Julian Reschke wrote: Because the issue is that we don't yet know if we want to support RDFa. That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody's given a useful problem statement yet, so we can't evaluate whether there's a problem

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: Actually, SearchMonkey is an excellent use case, and provides a problem statement. I'm surprised, but very happily so, that you agree. My confusion stems from the fact that Ian clearly mentioned SearchMonkey in his email a few days ago, then proceeded to say it wasn't a

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Ben Adida b...@adida.net wrote: Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: Actually, SearchMonkey is an excellent use case, and provides a problem statement. I'm surprised, but very happily so, that you agree. My confusion stems from the fact that Ian clearly mentioned

Re: [whatwg] Origins, reprise

2009-01-09 Thread Adam Barth
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: 3) Those for which the URI is same-origin with itself but no other URI (not to be confused with the globally unique identifier case). Can you give an example of this kind of URI? Thanks, Adam

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: However, Ian has a point in his first paragraph. SearchMonkey does *not* do auto-discovery; it relies entirely on site owners telling it precisely what data to extract, where it's allowed to extract it from, and how to present it. That's incorrect. You can build a

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
Ben Adida ha scritto: Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: Actually, SearchMonkey is an excellent use case, and provides a problem statement. I'm surprised, but very happily so, that you agree. My confusion stems from the fact that Ian clearly mentioned SearchMonkey in his email a few days ago,

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Ben Adida b...@adida.net wrote: Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: However, Ian has a point in his first paragraph. SearchMonkey does *not* do auto-discovery; it relies entirely on site owners telling it precisely what data to extract, where it's allowed to extract it from,

Re: [whatwg] Origins, reprise

2009-01-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
Adam Barth wrote: On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: 3) Those for which the URI is same-origin with itself but no other URI (not to be confused with the globally unique identifier case). Can you give an example of this kind of URI? Yes, of course. IMAP

Re: [whatwg] keygen

2009-01-09 Thread Story Henry
We started putting a wiki page together for this that will be kept up to date here: http://esw.w3.org/topic/foaf+ssl Henry On 9 Jan 2009, at 00:28, Story Henry wrote: Dear WhatWG, I just subscribed to this list having noticed a thread earlier this month on the topic of the keygen tag.

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: This brings up different issues, however. Is inherent resistance to spam a condition (even a consideration) for HTML5? If so, where is the concern around title, which is clearly featured in search engine results? -Ben

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Ben Adida b...@adida.net wrote: Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: This brings up different issues, however. Is inherent resistance to spam a condition (even a consideration) for HTML5? If so, where is the concern around title, which is clearly featured in search engine

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Ben Adida wrote: Is inherent resistance to spam a condition (even a consideration) for HTML5? We have to make sure that whatever we specify in HTML5 actually is going to be useful for the purpose it is intended for. If a feature intended for wide-scale automated data

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Tab Atkins Jr. wrote: To answer your specific question, title is under the control of the site author, and search engines already have elaborate methods to tell a spammy site from a hammy one, thus downranking them. And RDFa is also entirely under the control of the site author. On the other

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ben Adida
Ian Hickson wrote: We have to make sure that whatever we specify in HTML5 actually is going to be useful for the purpose it is intended for. If a feature intended for wide-scale automated data extraction is especially susceptible to spamming attacks, then it is unlikely to be useful for

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Ben Adida wrote: SearchMonkey, which you continue to ignore, is an important use case. When did I ignore it? I discussed it in depth in my e-mail in December, listing a number of use cases and requirements that I thought it demonstrated, and asking if there were any

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Dan Brickley
On 10/1/09 00:37, Ian Hickson wrote: On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Ben Adida wrote: Is inherent resistance to spam a condition (even a consideration) for HTML5? We have to make sure that whatever we specify in HTML5 actually is going to be useful for the purpose it is intended for. If a feature

Re: [whatwg] Trying to work out the problems solved by RDFa

2009-01-09 Thread Calogero Alex Baldacchino
Ben Adida ha scritto: Ian Hickson wrote: We have to make sure that whatever we specify in HTML5 actually is going to be useful for the purpose it is intended for. If a feature intended for wide-scale automated data extraction is especially susceptible to spamming attacks, then it is