Re: [whatwg] DOMTokenList is unordered but yet requires sorting

2009-05-18 Thread Simon Pieters
On Thu, 14 May 2009 22:58:20 +0200, Erik Arvidsson erik.arvids...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 00:30, Kristof Zelechovski giecr...@stegny.2a.pl wrote: If a token list represented an ordered set, it could not be sorted to get an item because the host would have to preserve the

Re: [whatwg] Link rot is not dangerous

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 15, 2009, at 19:20, Manu Sporny wrote: There have been a number of people now that have gone to great lengths to outline how awful link rot is for CURIEs and the semantic web in general. This is a flawed conclusion, based on the assumption that there must be a single vocabulary

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 14, 2009, at 23:52, Eduard Pascual wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Philip Taylor excors+wha...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't matter one syntax or another. But if a syntax already exists (RDFa), building a new syntax should be properly justified. It was at the start of this

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
Henri Sivonen wrote: On May 18, 2009, at 09:36, Brett Zamir wrote: Section 10.1, Writing XHTML documents observes: According to the XML specification, XML processors are not guaranteed to process the external DTD subset referenced in the DOCTYPE. While this is true, since no doubt the

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Julian Reschke
Henri Sivonen wrote: There's no indirection. A decade of Namespaces in XML shows that both authors and implementors have trouble getting prefix-based indirection right. It's true that people get this wrong again and again. But it's also true that lots of developers understand it once for

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
AFAIK, WebKit is not going to validate XML, they say it makes page load too slow. Besides, entities introduce a security risk because it can contain incomplete syntax fragments and they can open a path to XML injection into, say, ![DANGER[span title=malicious-entity; sweet kittens/span ]]. So XML

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
Kristof Zelechovski wrote: AFAIK, WebKit is not going to validate XML, they say it makes page load too slow. Yes, I can see validation would be a problem, and see little use for that except local file testing. But I'm just talking about using the DTD to access entities, not to do validation.

[whatwg] File package protocol and manifest support?

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
While this may be too far in the game to bring up, I'd very much be interested (and think others would be too) to have a standard means of representing not only individual files, but also groups of files on the web. One application of this would be for a web user to be able to do the

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 18, 2009, at 11:50, Brett Zamir wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: On May 18, 2009, at 09:36, Brett Zamir wrote: Section 10.1, Writing XHTML documents observes: According to the XML specification, XML processors are not guaranteed to process the external DTD subset referenced in the

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 18, 2009, at 12:18, Julian Reschke wrote: Henri Sivonen wrote: There's no indirection. A decade of Namespaces in XML shows that both authors and implementors have trouble getting prefix-based indirection right. It's true that people get this wrong again and again. But it's also

Re: [whatwg] Link rot is not dangerous

2009-05-18 Thread Dan Brickley
On 18/5/09 10:34, Henri Sivonen wrote: On May 15, 2009, at 19:20, Manu Sporny wrote: There have been a number of people now that have gone to great lengths to outline how awful link rot is for CURIEs and the semantic web in general. This is a flawed conclusion, based on the assumption that

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Julian Reschke
Henri Sivonen wrote: The interesting question here is whether there's a better system. 1) Centralized allocation of short names. Sounds like urn: to me. Registry is defined in RFC 3406. 2) Prefixing a short name by (an abbreviation of) the name of the vocabulary, which makes the

Re: [whatwg] Link rot is not dangerous

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 18, 2009, at 14:45, Dan Brickley wrote: On 18/5/09 10:34, Henri Sivonen wrote: It seems to me that the positions that RDF applications should Follow Their Nose and that link rot is not dangerous (to RDF) are contradictory positions. That's a strong claim. There is certainly a

[whatwg] DOM3 Load and Save for simple parsing/serialization?

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
One more thought... While it is great that innerHTML is being officially standardized, I'm afraid it would be rather hackish to have to use it for parsing and serializing dynamically created content which wasn't destined to make it immediately into the document, if at all. Has any thought

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Eduard Pascual
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Henri Sivonen hsivo...@iki.fi wrote: On May 14, 2009, at 23:52, Eduard Pascual wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Philip Taylor excors+wha...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't matter one syntax or another. But if a syntax already exists (RDFa), building a new

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On May 18, 2009, at 6:05 AM, Eduard Pascual wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Henri Sivonen hsivo...@iki.fi wrote: On May 14, 2009, at 23:52, Eduard Pascual wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Philip Taylor excors+wha...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't matter one syntax or

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semanticsfor

2009-05-18 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
Being unable to deal with all use cases sometimes is a feature. For example, regular expressions are unable to recognize all recursive languages; it is a feature. As a compensation for that loss, they do not suffer from the halting problem. HTH, Chris

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
Using entities in XSL to share code was my mistake once too; it is similar to using data members not wrapped in properties in data types. XSL itself provides a better structured approach for code reuse. Being able to use localized programming language constructs is at the same time trivial

[whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
As I have mentioned earlier, there are some devices that will be unable to render video faithfully inline, due to the limitations of hardware video accelerators. However, it occurs to me that there are two essentially different uses for video 1. Important content for the webpage. An example

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Simon Pieters
On Mon, 18 May 2009 16:22:29 +0200, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: As I have mentioned earlier, there are some devices that will be unable to render video faithfully inline, due to the limitations of hardware video accelerators. However, it occurs to me that there

Re: [whatwg] Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for

2009-05-18 Thread Henri Sivonen
On May 18, 2009, at 16:05, Eduard Pascual wrote: On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Henri Sivonen hsivo...@iki.fi wrote: (If we were limited to reasoning about something that we don't have experience with yet, I might believe that people can't be too inept to use prefix-based indirection.

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
Simon Pieters wrote: Is there a problem with always falling back to the poster image and just play the video (full-screen or on-top) when the user indicates he wants to see the video? If every menu button has a video tag associated with it to show a little 3D animation, then (a) how do you

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Simon Pieters
On Mon, 18 May 2009 16:59:03 +0200, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Simon Pieters wrote: Is there a problem with always falling back to the poster image and just play the video (full-screen or on-top) when the user indicates he wants to see the video? If every menu

Re: [whatwg] DOMTokenList is unordered but yet requires sorting

2009-05-18 Thread Erik Arvidsson
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 00:18, Simon Pieters sim...@opera.com wrote: Immagine if it is specified that the order is not relevant and implementations can use any order (so long as it's stable). So one UA uses one order and another uses another. Then one of those UAs becomes very popular. Web

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
Simon Pieters wrote: If there is a controls attribute or if scripting is disabled, show controls, else use author-provided scripted button (if any) to play the video. Consider a webpage in which a side-effect of clicking on some scripted button is to trigger a small animation (using video)

Re: [whatwg] DOMTokenList is unordered but yet requires sorting

2009-05-18 Thread Kristof Zelechovski
DOMTokenList, as an object, is semantically unordered, therefore an arbitrary ordering can be used for enumeration. The item method of DOMTokenList provides an enumerator and imposes such an ordering. Since no other enumerator is available to counter the claim, it may be tempting to say, as a

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Simon Pieters
On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:59:01 +0200, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Simon Pieters wrote: If there is a controls attribute or if scripting is disabled, show controls, else use author-provided scripted button (if any) to play the video. Consider a webpage in which a

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
Simon Pieters wrote: On Mon, 18 May 2009 18:59:01 +0200, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Simon Pieters wrote: If there is a controls attribute or if scripting is disabled, show controls, else use author-provided scripted button (if any) to play the video. Consider a

Re: [whatwg] A new attribute for video and low-power devices

2009-05-18 Thread Aryeh Gregor
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: Authors who are only testing on modern desktops will, as you say, likely ignore this issue.  I therefore fully expect that they will never set this attribute. Isn't that like saying that authors who are only

[whatwg] longdesc [was: A new attribute for video and low-power devices]

2009-05-18 Thread Jim Jewett
In the ~0.1% of images where longdesc= is used, it's misused literally over 99% of the time: http://blog.whatwg.org/the-longdesc-lottery Responding for the archive; that blog bost keeps getting cited, but it isn't up to Mark's usual standards. longdesc is not a success story, but neither is

Re: [whatwg] longdesc [was: A new attribute for video and low-power devices]

2009-05-18 Thread Aryeh Gregor
On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Jim Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: The 99% misused is at best debatable.  I'm pretty sure that using a longer human-readable description instead of an URL was once (admittedly long ago) recommended. In HTML 3.2, longdesc didn't exist:

[whatwg] Reserving id attribute values?

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
In order to comply with XML ID requirements in XML, and facilitate future transitions to XML, can HTML 5 explicitly encourage id attribute values to follow this pattern (e.g., disallowing numbers for the starting character)? Also, there is this minor errata:

Re: [whatwg] External document subset support

2009-05-18 Thread Brett Zamir
Hello, I don't want to go too far off topic here, but I'll respond to the points as I do think it illustrates one of the uses of entities (localization)--which would apply to some degree in XHTML (at least for entities) as well as in XML. Kristof Zelechovski wrote: Using entities in XSL