On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@apple.com wrote:
On May 3, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
instead of just being a wiki.
That depends on whether other vendors are objecting.
Looks like that is the case:
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote:
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
instead of just being a wiki.
That depends on whether other vendors are
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 3:31 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
That thread concluded with a let's see how this feature is going to be used
before we commit.
I cannot find that quote.
--
http://annevankesteren.nl/
On Jul 2, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@annevk.nl wrote:
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
Since there are now 2 implementations, it should be added to the spec
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
I thought that those concerns were addressed with the addition of a maximum
number of cores?
That doesn't address much, if anything.
Also, WebKit's implementation also caps the number of cores at eight
to mitigate
On 7/2/2014 8:31 AM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
That thread concluded with a let's see how this feature is going to
be used before we commit. Blink and WebKit certainly are in favor.
I went back and looked at the later messages in that thread. Your
argument implies that a plurality of engines
On 7/2/14, 3:21 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
facts = 2 implementations. I certainly didn't say anything else.
You said, and I quote:
That thread concluded with a let's see how this feature is going to
be used before we commit.
Anyway, 2 implementations is a necessary condition for a REC, not
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
On 7/2/14, 3:21 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
facts = 2 implementations. I certainly didn't say anything else.
You said, and I quote:
That thread concluded with a let's see how this feature is going to
be used before we
Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com writes:
We want to claim 6 in that situation. If the API claimed less than 6
on Samsung's Exynos 5 Hexa (2x A15 cores + 4x A7 cores), then the
cores will be underutilized.
Implying it is right for any application to utilize all cores available
in a multi-process
On May 3, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
Some of the
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Young dyo...@pobox.com wrote:
The algorithms don't have to run as fast as possible, they only have to
run fast enough that the system is responsive to the user. If there is
a motion graphic, you need to run the algorithm fast enough that the
motion
On 5/13/14, 10:11 AM, James Graham wrote:
I think the problem that I have with this API is the number of cores
that exist isn't obviously a good proxy for the number of cores that
are available. It I have N cores and am already using M cores for e.g.
decompressing video, N-M is probably a much
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
this proposal seems to assume that the UA itself is using a very
few cores
The proposal does not assume anything regarding current system load.
If the UA is using every core for some CPU-intensive operation, then
On Fri, May 09, 2014 at 11:05:03AM -0500, Glenn Maynard wrote:
On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Young dyo...@pobox.com wrote:
The algorithms don't have to run as fast as possible, they only have to
run fast enough that the system is responsive to the user. If there is
a motion
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 07:31:15PM -0400, Eli Grey wrote:
I have a list of example use cases at
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores#Example_use_cases
Each of these use cases involves a parallelizable algorithm that needs
to run as fast as possible on the user's system in order for the
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
I've updated the spec proposal [1] to sanction reporting fewer than the
actual number of logical cores as a fingerprinting mitigation.
The spec should allow the UA to do this (the real value isn't
script-visible, so it
FYI
From the WebKit side, people are leaning towards returning the logical CPU
count but limit the maximum value to 8 [1].
This should cover the vast majority of systems and use cases for this
property and still not expose users that are on high value devices..
1:
Maybe we can also return their RAM, but limit it to a maximum of 640K,
since no one will need more than that :-)
I think in a few years the limit to 8 cores will look just as silly.
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
FYI
From the WebKit side, people are
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Joe Gregorio jcgrego...@google.com wrote:
Maybe we can also return their RAM, but limit it to a maximum of 640K,
since no one will need more than that :-)
I think in a few years the limit to 8 cores will look just as silly.
Once 16 is common, WebKit will be
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
What do you mean?
The paper explains that fingerprinting is a problem for privacy, and here
it's being used to argue fingerprinting is already so bad that we should
stop trying. (I'm not saying he can't do it or that it's
I've updated the spec proposal [1] to sanction reporting fewer than the
actual number of logical cores as a fingerprinting mitigation. I've also
renamed the API from navigator.cores to navigator.hardwareConcurrency to
match the proposed WebKit patch.
Adam
[1]
On Tue, 06 May 2014 01:29:47 +0200, Kenneth Russell k...@google.com wrote:
Applications need this API in order to determine how many Web Workers
to instantiate in order to parallelize their work.
On Tue, 06 May 2014 01:31:15 +0200, Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com wrote:
I have a list of example
On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 01:05:35PM -0700, Rik Cabanier wrote:
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:10 AM, David Young dyo...@pobox.com wrote:
On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 10:49:00AM -0700, Adam Barth wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
navigator
that reports the
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 7:57 AM, João Eiras jo...@opera.com wrote:
...
I guess everyone that is reading this thread understands the use cases well
and agrees with them.
The disagreement is what kind of API you need. Many people, rightly so, have
stated that a core count gives little
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Joe Gregorio jcgrego...@google.com wrote:
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 7:57 AM, João Eiras jo...@opera.com wrote:
...
I guess everyone that is reading this thread understands the use cases
well
and agrees with them.
The disagreement is what kind of API you
On 5/6/14, 5:30 PM, Rik Cabanier wrote:
Leaving the question of fingerprinting aside for now, what name would
people prefer?
mauve?
Failing that, maxUsefulWorkers?
-Boris
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
You're right that Panopticlick doesn't bother to spend the few seconds it
takes to estimate the number of cores because it already has sufficient
information to fingerprint 99.1% of visitors:
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Glenn Maynard gl...@zewt.org wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:49 PM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
You're right that Panopticlick doesn't bother to spend the few seconds it
takes to estimate the number of cores because it already has sufficient
On 5/4/14, 9:49 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
Maybe navigator.hardwareConcurrency as a nod to the C++11 name?
What is the proposed behavior of this attribute on AMP (as opposed to
SMP) systems? Note that some of these are shipping in actual devices
today, and I expect that to continue.
-Boris
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
The needs of the web as a platform
On 5/5/14, 11:26 AM, Adam Barth wrote:
On getting, the cores property should return the number of logical
processors available to the user agent. For example on OS X this should be
equivalent to running sysctl -n hw.ncpu.
This doesn't really answer my question. What if there are six logical
We want to claim 6 in that situation. If the API claimed less than 6
on Samsung's Exynos 5 Hexa (2x A15 cores + 4x A7 cores), then the
cores will be underutilized.
We already experience varying performance per core with current
systems (especially mobile SoCs) using uniform core hardware, simply
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:10 AM, David Young dyo...@pobox.com wrote:
On Sat, May 03, 2014 at 10:49:00AM -0700, Adam Barth wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality
Hi.
I'm just taking a peek at this topic. My first impression is: why
would anyone want such a low level hardware information (CPU cores and
whatnot) on something as high level and abstract as a browser? This
strikes me initially a useful as having the CPU architecture exposed
as well.
However,
I have a list of example use cases at
http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores#Example_use_cases
Each of these use cases involves a parallelizable algorithm that needs
to run as fast as possible on the user's system in order for the user
to have a responsive experience. You can never run any of
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Kenneth Russell wrote:
It would be great to design a new parallelism architecture for the web,
but from a practical standpoint, no progress has been made in this area
for a number of years, and web developers are hampered today by the
absence of this information.
GCD exposes core count in that you can make your jobs keep track of
the current time and then count how many threads are running at the
same time. A GCD-style API will enable me to replace all of Core
Estimator's estimation and statistical code with a very simple counter
and time tracker, while
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Kenneth Russell wrote:
It would be great to design a new parallelism architecture for the
web, but from a practical standpoint, no progress has been made in
this area for a number of years, and web developers are hampered today
by the absence of this information.
On
On 5/5/14, 7:29 PM, Kenneth Russell wrote:
There's no provision in the web worker
specification for allocation of a web worker to fail gracefully, or
for a worker to be suspended indefinitely.
This is not actually true. Nothing in the spec requires a UA to expose
the full parallelism of the
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote:
On 5/5/14, 7:29 PM, Kenneth Russell wrote:
There's no provision in the web worker
specification for allocation of a web worker to fail gracefully, or
for a worker to be suspended indefinitely.
This is not actually true.
On Mon, 5 May 2014, Eli Grey wrote:
GCD exposes core count in that you can make your jobs keep track of the
current time and then count how many threads are running at the same
time. A GCD-style API will enable me to replace all of Core Estimator's
estimation and statistical code with a
On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com wrote:
The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Tobie Langel tobie.lan...@gmail.comwrote:
On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com wrote:
The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
all of the CPUs
On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2].
[1]
https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/B6pQClqfCp4
[2] http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores
Some of
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
navigator
that reports the number of cores [2].
[1]
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to
navigator
that reports the number of cores [2].
[1]
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Tobie Langel tobie.lan...@gmail.comwrote:
On May 4, 2014, at 7:45, Rik Cabanier caban...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com wrote:
The proposal
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
or you have to examine
permissions that the application is requesting, and explicitly grant it
the right to run on your machine
I am not aware of this in any platforms. Can you provide one example
of a platform that requests an
Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com writes:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
Some of the use cases for this feature
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
The needs of the web as a platform have changed because now the web
faces stiff competition from other
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch wrote:
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Adam Barth wrote:
The world of computing has changed since 2009. At that time, the iPhone
3G had just been released and Apple hadn't even released the first iPad.
The needs of the web as a platform
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
Some of the use cases for this feature have been discussed previously on
this
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Adam Barth w...@adambarth.com wrote:
Over on blink-dev, we've been discussing [1] adding a property to navigator
that reports the number of cores [2]. As far as I can tell, this
functionality exists in every other platform (including iOS and Android).
Some
The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical cores as double
the hardware cores. Depending on the version and configuration of the
Samsung Exynos Octa big.LITTLE CPUs, you will get
On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:32 PM, Eli Grey m...@eligrey.com wrote:
The proposal specifically states using logical cores, which handles
all of the CPUs you mentioned properly.
Intel CPUs with hyperthreading enabled report logical cores as double
the hardware cores. Depending on the version and
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