information. If all attributions
included a link to the creator's or copyright holder's webpage, or an
email address, that would work, but there's no guarantee they will. Such
usage dilutes the meaning of address/.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
to me, but you
probably know best.
My one query is whether we want to use credit / for other things too.
For example, if a page aggregates content from different authors (e.g.
using RSS feeds or indeed a newspaper front page) would it be handy to
name them with credit /?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
straight to the source. It doesn't sound like it would have
the same utility for figures.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
that cite / cannot contain cite / -- for now.
Unfortunately for us, the all-important bibliographic microformat is
still at a brainstorming and data collection stage:
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/ system would have a big battle on its
hands to displace established players.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
using real DOMs instead
of tag soup, there would be much less of a problem.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
. And
that means either describing one language in terms of another, or
serving different serializations of the same content. Anything else
would be an accessibility nightmare.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
I wrote:
However, I would vehemently stress that it is not that uncommon
for notes and marginalia to themselves have notes or marginalia,
Then Michael(tm) Smith asked:
I don't doubt that there are some, but are you aware of any
specific examples?
Well, most famously (and if you really want
://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/site/cocoa-text.html
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
personally be happier, in this case, with a submission mechanism
acting as a intermediate layer between submitters and the official list
of types.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
difficulties with databases of all stripes. And I can't see why the
end-user would be worrying about well-formedness with such a CMS any
more than they worry about well-formedness when using OpenOffice.org or
Microsoft Word.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
reject that viewpoint, e.g.:
http://www.anysurfer.be/
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
-1s-click-investigates/
I explain why inserting deliberate errors into their own markup was
counter-productive in comments there, so I won't repeat myself here. :)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
systems are part together.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
they wouldn't know what they mean. It's the psychological
effect on authors that's really crucial.)
But it would still be better than nothing.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
do help
search engines; e.g. the requirement of an ALT attribute for IMG
provides search engines with additional text data.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/that/ is a real problem, but it is little different in type to
specifying what elements contain, or can contain, what other elements.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
citations, then you don't have to
distinguish the citations from the non-citations by hand. You just put a
different rule into your stylesheet.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Leons Petrazickis wrote:
I think what's wanted is a Cascading Semantics Language.
I'm baffled. Why do we want this? What would it allow us to do?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
...)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
I have, and a heart doesn’t suit me,
Windermere. Somehow it doesn’t go with modern dress. It makes one
look old. [Takes up hand-mirror from table and looks into it.] And
it spoils one’s career at critical moments.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/790
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
: how many em/ equal one strong/?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
abolishes a potentially
useful distinction between acronyms (pronounced as a single word) and
other abbreviations.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
than
tag soup, and sufficiently detailed microformats, then transforming
between HTML2, HTML5, and XHTML2 needn't be a huge problem.
Like others also active on the www-html mailing list, I see no
contradiction between expending effort on both drafts.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/hypertextuality/
More features will be forthcoming as time allows (i.e. slowly). Feel
free to bug me with feature requests, but check the todo list first.
There is a bug issue for implementing cite in WebKit:
http://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6464
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
extension is
automatically fetching metadata from cited pages. I'm not sure how best
to display it however.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
of an unambiguous, non-disruptive indicator for
cited quotations, I'd happily attempt to add it to my implementation.
I'm a bit unsure about underlining, since that's already got quite a lot
of meanings and potential conflicts.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/blockquote
a href=www.example.comNemo, Works, IV/a
/cite
It may of course be that the way current UAs parse and render cite would make
such markup impossible.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
if one wished to style the cite
as a footnote.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
than the
work itself. Then it could refer to a cite element via a fragment
identifier. (The reason to have q refer to cite rather than the other
way round is that you never have two cites to one q, but you often have
more than one q to a cite.)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
and
microformats into /types/ and set rules of precedence for those types.
Which could be done, but I don't see anyone doing it.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
to the quotation's source
This couldn't be further from semantics for the sake of semantics. It's
as fundamental as input type=text.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
a bit better thanks
to the article element.
Of course one could bring custom metadata of this sort within the URI
model easily enough, by using a TinyURL-type lookup service that
included the metadata in the URI.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
to worry I propose forcing people dig up information in
which they have no interest. On the contrary, I see people cataloguing
tedious metadata, or struggling to find where quotations came from, and
want software to do it for them.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
the convenience of their
cybernetic web interface in Earth Year 2407.
As for the normal links on which most of the web currently relies, I
suspect half of those will have come down with link rot by then. ;)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
for a
different display environment possibly with a different font.
How would a different font conflict with its italicization? Did you mean
in a UA like Lynx that doesn't support CSS?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
them mid-paragraph is not abuse. Their use should be neither
deprecated nor discouraged.
So why should font, center, and small be discouraged then?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
(not all styles are
necessarily equal). But what about the use of different typefaces for
code and samp and so forth? What about the symbolic use of different
type sizes in mathematical text? What about the use of type size for
emphasis, or for Ruby annotations?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
, a user agent presented with
metadata as crass as citeHamlet, I.ii/cite could query Google:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=I.ii+intitle%3AHamlet
and retrieve
http://www.bartleby.com/70/4212
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
work out a way for cite elements to
reference other cite elements. Which sounds more complex than having
UAs extract citation data from a URI in the first place.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
hCite block?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
with cite makes it easier to
perform more sophisticated automated processing, such as retrieving a
best guess source.
How worthwhile such automated processing is depends partly on whether
the spec and tools make it easy to provide citations in URI form.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
were masochists who prefer hand entry
of book details?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
will make it easy to
share.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
the reader's preferences, quotations can be checked against their
sources, and so forth.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
approach advocated there.)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
software simply haven't recorded ISBNs for newer books?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
few since most current microformat processing doesn't
check the profile. Karl's suggesting (I think) that it should.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Julian Reschke wrote:
So, when a profile attribute contains multiple URIs, and the associated
dictionaries overlap, how is this supposed to work?
Yeah. That's why local namespacing is a somewhat more flexible solution.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
not so much one of de-emphasis as
of hypertext.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
with, screen readers, few devotees of
semantic markup properly understand the accessibility implications of
using or not using Q, and avoid it because of their misunderstandings.
See http://www.benjaminhawkeslewis.com/www/accessibility/q-element for
more details.
/offtopic
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
a second element for independent
selection.
CSS 2:
object[type=image/jpeg], object[type=image/gif]
Draft CSS 3:
object[type^=image/]
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
for them to
distinguish such headers, how should they treat legacy content?
If it should not, the specification needs to state this, given the past
history of people sometimes (counter-productively IMHO) using h1 for
the site header on sub-pages.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
, and which could be considered separate from that
content. XHTML2 defines a role called navigation for the navigation
bar on a web document, while XHTML5 defines a menu element.
* XHTML2 uses XForms for forms, XHTML5 uses Web Forms 2.0.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
. ;)
XHTML5 also has a semantic class name note for this very purpose which
can be used on aside, p and span.
What's the implied difference between aside and aside class=note?
How might a UA treat them differently?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
The intended meaning of the author will be the one that is supported by
the browsers.
Anne and I were talking about XHTML1 and XHTML5, not XHTML2 and
XHTML5.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
:
body
h4Apples/h4
pApples are fruit./p
section
h2Taste/h2
pThey taste lovely./p
h6Sweet/h6
pRed apples are sweeter than green ones./p
h1Color/h1
pApples come in various colors./p
/section
/body
to use an example out of the spec.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
outline in legacy
UAs, so this is not an option if you want that).
Well, the spec could use that example as an example of error correction
rather than an example of how one may use headers but should not.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
the title attribute and move on. (Of course wordpart is an
unpleasant sort of class name, but...)
What distinction are you drawing between a contraction (as in abbr
title=Lieutenant class=contractionLeut./abbr) and a wordpart?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/003555.html
There's even a relevant Wikipedia category:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Orphan_initialisms
The only thing for sure is that there is a strong disagreement on the
terminology.
Yes. It's difficult. :(
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
it up at all. As
there's no issue with pronunciation (so long as it's written laser not
LASER) and there's no excuse for general words not to be in UA
dictionaries that seems like a reasonable solution.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Sorry, Evolution cut me off. Example 3 was from:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.1
Of course, just because the HTML4 spec goes in for this stuff doesn't
itself mean it's a good idea.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
information seems
guaranteed to break.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
comment,
though, it only makes sense that simple comments use |title|.
Why?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
support for XML (XHTML 5)?
Well a key motivation is that some authors prefer using XHTML.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
almost as popularly familiar as
WYSIWIG itself.
Authoring tools need to respect this separation of roles and avoid
burdening people with tasks that are inappropriate to their roles.
Yes I suspect moving away from single view to workflow models would help
here.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
capacity to absorb new conventions.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
up. Partial
knowledge is better than no knowledge.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
element contactinfo, which is a more general name than
address and doesn't make old content more ambiguous.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
techniques and technologies too. The fact that it took such
time does not mean that there was no use-case for citation.
An author element might kill several of these birds with one stone.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
in an accessible manner much easier too. Which would be great, as it
currently seems to be a somewhat complicated task.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
policy anyway, but if it makes
any difference there is a SMIL 2.1 player whose source code is available
for use by third parties under the LGPL:
http://www.cwi.nl/projects/Ambulant/FAQ.html
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
to another use-case for article and
one simple route towards validating it.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
proprietary formats
where open ones are available ... unless we want to allow nesting
video elements for fallback? Not that there's anything wrong with
nested elements, seeing as we must offer text fallback anyhow, and
seeing as the same API would be exposed by each nested level.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
/www-html/2006Nov/0044.html
and
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2006Nov/0050.html
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
they considered
their support for real XHTML less reliable than their support for HTML
at that point. So while Safari's Accept header may be suboptimal,
there's nothing terribly wrong with interpreting it the same as IE and
serving it HTML instead.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
data much more
difficult. As gathering such data is one major use for such elements, I
think that would be a mistake.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
, and end up serving gibberish. Like
it or not, effective web delivery depends on correct HTTP headers.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
In theory, standardized file extensions or type attributes allows
non-supporting browsers to not issue a request for the content, if they
could trust producers to correctly label content
Or at least it would, if user agents could trust producers to correctly
label their content. But even if
or
image/foobar, it shows the fallback but no link. With text/foobar it
treats the object as an iframe but fails to parse following content
correctly. It's hard to see this example, at least, as a demonstration
of the utility of content types.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
, read:
http://www.accessibilitynews.ca/acnews/editorials/geof.php#a42
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
plugin has an API but no default
control-set such as is provided by QuickTime:
http://www.videolan.org/doc/vlc-user-guide/en/ch07.html
By providing a common API, video would eventually make creating common
JS controls easier.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
options to that menu. (I think they can also remove
options, but from the user's point of view that's a bug.)
I suspect the fact that JS can't add to the context menu in browser
environments more generally is a shame.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
than any XML format.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis.
contained these separate elements? It
would be a powerful way of building a level of transparent accessibility
into the system, without requiring users to download and play
high-bandwidth content to find out if it has the features they need.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
' events, so you can achieve the same effect.
Error events are in any case preferable, so that text alternatives can
be separated from download suggestions.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
search engines, I wonder?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
-navigable_custom_DHTML_widgets
Of course, we might want to try to improve on tabindex and fix the
scoping problem. Perhaps:
div id=foobar
div tabgroup=foobar taborder=2/
div tabgroup=foobar taborder=1/
/div
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
by broken implementations, never mind misconceived editors,
vague specs, and widespread misinformation. So it's best to be cautious
about getting rid of elements.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
, it might be possible to
define a common core of standard functionality based on what Gnash
supports.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
specialized markup might well end up being paradoxically more
backwards compatible.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
browsers can implement JavaScript and
display descriptions and closed captions. There's no reason save
programmer time and interest why a pure text browser couldn't implement
video/ without the video and audio.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
of external
sources, which is what q/blockquote and cite are properly for. Given the
HTML4 spec's own use of dt and dd, it's far from clear that any
redefinition is involved. That isn't to suggest that dt and dd are
optimal however.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
for dialogues.)
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
programs don't need to make it easy to add alt text.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:56 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:32:10 -0400, Maciej Stachowiak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think it remains the case that for end-user generated
such
heuristics, defeating any attempt to attach a special new meaning to
missing alt attributes. If images without alt are to be allowed, then
noalt would be a reasonable hint.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
marks. So Alexey's analogy with how we treat more reliable
punctuation is problematic.
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:18:23 +0200, Charles Iliya Krempeaux
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It occurs to me that one of the most frequently used nits of
pseudo
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