, the semantic class names could be translated
into Finnish or into Elvish or be replaced with unique random strings.
So in the end, home-grown class names are just style hooks when observed
outside the private universe of the author.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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not defined in
HTML4 anyway.
I have suggested that conforming documents be required to use the
semicolon in all cases. That way conformance checkers could enforce
maximum compatibility.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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as well. --
!-- IMO, this -- should not be conforming but should parse
unambiguously with an easy parse error. --
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
that conforming comments maximize
compatibility with different parsers.
I did not say anything about how I want non-conforming comments to be
handled, because I think Hixie has researched the issue so much more
than I that I don't have anything educated enough to say right now.
--
Henri
if they
weren't concerned about market share.
I don't. And I
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
observed and do not involve reshuffling the parts of the DOM that
have already been built.
* http://hsivonen.iki.fi/validator-about/htmlparser.jar (with source)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
+ #text: XY
...IMHO.
Agree; but again, the empty EM element is redundant.
Yes, but is getting rid of it worth the trouble of deferring all
inline start tag parse events until a another kind of parse event is
seen? I think not.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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On Jan 25, 2006, at 19:50, liorean wrote:
So, how about dropping id uniqueness then?
UAs will have deal with author-introduced duplicate ids anyway, so
parser-introduced duplicates are not a big deal.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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of boolean attributes into the value and perhaps some issues
with line breaks in attribute values.
Whether the spec needs to say any of this is another matter
altogether. For interop, speccing what browsers need to do is the
most important task.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
and repeat-min non-conforming without repeat? Would
make sense.
3.6.1.
Is is non-conforming to mark the root element as a repetition template?
3.6.1.
Is it non-conforming for the document initial state not to comply
with repeat-max and repeat-min?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
.
I agree.
Cool.
You can have empty sections. They might not be written yet, for
instance.
OK.
I agree. I think I'll remove mention of the significant inline
content
concept.
Seems practical.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Mar 11, 2006, at 03:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Off the top of my head, the changes from the HTML parsing output
involve
(besides lowercasing names and putting elements in the XHTML 1.x
namespace)
getting rid of the meta element conveying character
,
Opera, Safari and IE6. (It might even be useful to intersect that set
with the encodings supported by JDK and Python by default.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Mar 11, 2006, at 17:10, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Initialize a character decoder that the bytes 0x20–0x7E (inclusive)
as well as 0x09, 0x0A and 0x0D decode to the Unicode code points of
the same (zero-extended) value and maps all other bytes to U+FFFD
and raises a REWIND flag
On further
On Mar 11, 2006, at 16:17, Simon Pieters wrote:
From: Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shouldn't lang take precedence in HTML?
Why should the lang attribute (in the null namespace) take
precedence in HTML?
Because lang in no namespace is what is normal for HTML. However,
since Anne said
On Mar 13, 2006, at 16:12, Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
Authors are adviced not to use the UTF-32 encoding or legacy
encodings. (Note: I think UTF-32 on the Web is harmful and utterly
pointless,
I agree about it being pointless, but why is it considered harmful?
Opportunity
. I suggest banning attributes other
than href on base, so that conforming HTML5 documents can be
serialized as conforming XHTML5 documents without data loss. This
would be consistent with the prohibition of extra attributes on the
charset meta.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:03, Peter Karlsson wrote:
Henri Sivonen on 2006-03-11:
I think it would be beneficial to additionally stipulate that
1. The meta element-based character encoding information
declaration is expected to work only if the Basic Latin range of
characters maps to the same
On Mar 14, 2006, at 15:07, Peter Karlsson wrote:
Henri Sivonen on 2006-03-14:
Transcoding is very popular, especially in Russia.
In *proxies* *today*? What's the point considering that browsers
have supported the Cyrillic encoding soup *and* UTF-8 for years?
The mod_charset
On Feb 25, 2006, at 01:06, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Henri Sivonen wrote:
I am very hostile towards the idea of requiring UAs to implement
any XML
parsing features that are in the realm of the XML 1.0 spec but
that the
XML 1.0 spec does not require. This means processing
(if it uses a supported scripting language)
be downloaded and executed.
Does disabling scripting make the scripting language unsupported for
the purposes of conformance requirements or should the spec state the
obvious here?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Mar 11, 2006, at 03:21, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Feb 25, 2006, at 02:02, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Which characters should a text/html HTML5 conformance checker
consider
forbidden? The same characters
On Mar 17, 2006, at 18:48, fantasai wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
2.4.5.
To set metadata with meta elements, authors must first specify a
profile that defines metadata names, using the profile attribute.
In my opinion, it would be useful to predefine the traditional
names and Dublin Core
or is it a markup attribute as well?
Whose attribute is it?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
should, in my opinion, count as parse errors.
8.2.2.3.7.
The insertion modes pertaining to tables specify the handling of
comment tokens as parse errors and the comments are inserted on the
foster parent. Is that intentional? It looks like an oversight.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
the wrong word (like 'their' and 'there' for many native
speakers).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
The spec says:
Certain elements in HTML can be activated, for instance a elements,
button elements, or input elements when their type attribute is set
to radio.
When is an input element non-interactive? type='hidden' seems non-
interactive. The rest are all interactive, right?
--
Henri
On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:27, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2006 23:01:59 +0600, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
When is an input element non-interactive? type='hidden' seems non-
interactive. The rest are all interactive, right?
type=output seems non-interactive, too. Am I
='file' does not.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
...)
Is it conforming to have no option that is marked selected? (I think
allowing this is safe.)
Select multiple:
Is it conforming for an option to be both selected and disabled? How
do native widgets handle this?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
Should fieldset count as an interactive element for the purpose of
nesting rules?
A fieldset in a context where interactive elements are forbidden is
not allowed to contain any form controls anyway.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Mar 30, 2006, at 06:56, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 01:15:38 +0700, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Single select:
Is it conforming for an option to be both selected and disabled?
(I think it shouldn't be conforming.)
I think it should be allowed. It's useful
and was silent on conformance.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
namespace.
For precision, should say localName, not tag name.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Apr 1, 2006, at 16:18, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
Quoting Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Whoa! It's even interoperably supported in Firefox and Opera.
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/wa10/adhoc/option-selected-disabled.html
It would be interesting to see what happens if it wasn't the first
' PASS
id='lt;' PASS
id=',' PASS
id='auml;' PASS
id=' c ' FAIL
id='\nd\n' FAIL
id='\t\te\t\t' FAIL
id='#13;f#13;' FAIL
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
attribute in XHTML (but not
necessarily conforming as an xml:id value) in order to allow XHTML-
serializability of conforming HTML docs.
(I am not interested in DTD-valid documents. I consider DTDs harmful.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Apr 3, 2006, at 09:47, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Sat, 1 Apr 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Should fieldset count as an interactive element for the purpose of
nesting rules?
No, since as you say:
A fieldset in a context where interactive elements are forbidden
is not
allowed to contain any
On Apr 3, 2006, at 00:00, fantasai wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
On Apr 2, 2006, at 18:56, fantasai wrote:
I'd rather see the id attribute restricted to an NCName token
insofar
as possible. We can make an exception for Hixie's repetition
templates,
but otherwise I think it should
On Apr 3, 2006, at 18:37, Henri Sivonen wrote:
It appear that enabling ID/IDREF checking wreaks havoc with schemas
that have not been written with this in mind.
I have not yet assessed the extent of the damage, but it could turn
out that ID/IDREF checking needs to go in a separate schema
On Apr 3, 2006, at 18:37, Henri Sivonen wrote:
I spent quite a while today verifying (by implementing a more
permissive ID datatype library) that James Clark's Jing agrees with
my reading of the spec.
In case anyone is interested in playing with it, the datatype library
(with source; MIT
On Apr 7, 2006, at 00:11, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Is it conforming for these attributes to appear on elements that do
not have the repeat attribute (with any value; assuming that
occurrence with repeat set to an integer is conforming)?
Hmm. Actually, step 8 in the template addition process
On Apr 7, 2006, at 00:11, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Section 3.4.
The repeat-min attribute specifies the number of repetition blocks
that the remove button type will ensure are present each time a
block is removed. Its value must be a positive integer (one or more
digits 0-9 interpreted
?
Because zero is neither positive nor negative.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Zero.html
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PositiveInteger.html
Don't you have positive and negative 0's?
Only in floating point values as a technical detail--not in pure math
or in two's complement digital integers.
--
Henri
Section 5.2.1.
Why isn't the _charset_ field defined to be filled when the
submission type is multipart/form-data?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
1752' on a *nix system to see what I mean.)
I'm inclined to think that the best option for WF 2.0 is to require
the use of the proleptic Gregorian calendar all the way to 0001-01-01.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Apr 10, 2006, at 16:43, Michel Fortin wrote:
Le 10 avr. 2006 à 7:19, Henri Sivonen a écrit :
I'm inclined to think that the best option for WF 2.0 is to
require the use of the proleptic Gregorian calendar all the way to
0001-01-01.
What about prior dates?
The syntax does not allow
On Apr 2, 2006, at 15:09, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
Quoting Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Also, I suggest requiring that elements must not have both id and
xml:id and requiring that xml:id must not occur in the HTML
serialization. (Again, from the document conformance point of view
On Apr 4, 2006, at 19:35, fantasai wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
I have now assessed the damage. It is not as bad as it looked
like. :-)
Despite a flood of error messages, there were only three causes:
1) Can't have wild card attributes on wild card elements in the
wild card content
on language tags to the successor of RFC 3066?
(XML 1.0 has or its successor language regarding RFC 3066, so that
won't be a problem.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
. Still, I doubt whether it is
worthwhile to have an unstable but universal number format for
content that is displayed to end users only as fallback.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
sections) must have the active attribute set?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
The DOM interface for the menu element says HTMLCommandElement. It
should probably say HTMLMenuElement.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
uncomfortable with LT;, GT;, AMP;, QUOT; and COPY; on
aesthetic grounds, but at least they work interoperably.
By the way, the handling of these entities is currently the only
special case in my parser that varies depending on the doctype (HTML
4.01 vs. HTML5).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED
and IDness should not
conflict with common attrs and they should be sufficient for the
usual suspects (Flash, QuickTime, etc.).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Apr 17, 2006, at 19:14, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Then I found
http://jena.sourceforge.net/tmp/javadoc/com/hp/hpl/jena/iri/
IRIFactory.html
which provides a fascinating number of enforcement options. I could
write a custom datatype wrapper for it, but I don't know which
options to use.
I
On Apr 15, 2006, at 00:21, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Therefore, I suggest calling apps that have the following properties
conforming with some qualifications:
* The UA is a conforming XHTML5 UA.
* The UA is able to convert any conforming HTML5 document
and Safari, at least.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
know. I suppose issues
related to spec interpretation are best discussed on the list.
The generic interface at
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/validator/
has also been substantially improved (now in glorious 2.0 beta :-).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
and file URLs in Opera 9 even though the pattern only
matches http and https URLs.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
of it.
According to the Macromedia post I referenced
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/accessibility/archives/2005/08/
in_search_of_a.cfm
Flash Satay does not work with JAWS.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
to implement weak anti-print Digital Restrictions Management. A
*User* Agent should always allow printing the current DOM with the
current CSS applied.
Something I wrote long ago: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/print-ui/
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
little tags, because sub, sup, var and table can be
reused.
I don't believe that considering that vast feature set LaTeX needs to
provide.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
underlying graphics libraries do? E.g. what happens in Quartz
2D?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
tone. Sorry.
On May 27, 2006, at 20:10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Math even more than schemas or vector graphics needs to have an XML
syntax, because math needs to integrate in prose on a more profound
level than e.g. replaced elements would allow.
I do
the implementation would
take more than a couple of days, I am not volunteering to prototype
this. :-)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
to the RELAX NG
schema, I'd appreciate it if the language did not gain features that
are too crazy for RELAX NG + Schematron. :-)
You do need to know how to write it though...
Need to know how to write a normative DTD???
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
to find out what they think are the problems
that need to be solved (if any).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Jun 8, 2006, at 01:18, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2006, Henri Sivonen wrote:
If we made MathML work in HTML, possibly with rules that make the
syntax easier (by implying tags as I suggested earlier)
The implied stuff seems scary. I was hoping for no more tag inference
beyond HTML 4
On Jun 15, 2006, at 06:29, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
Here is what I think should be standardized: a user agent which
supports accesskeys MUST provide an uniform method of invoking any
accesskey which is a letter or a digit.
Do you mean 0-9 and a-z or any Unicode digit or letter?
--
Henri
don't understand why you keep bringing up XSL-FO. I assure you that
bringing up XSL-FO in almost every message doesn't help you make your
case.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
,
the user is really clueless and cannot judge whether spell checker
results require action or not. Sadly, those users exist.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
, there are several issues that would need to be addressed:
Hopefully, the issue list adequately demonstrates that the continue
attribute is way too complicated considering that the old start
attribute solves the numbering problem in a very pragmatic way.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
given names.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
cover for
example Venice adopting the modern new year rule at a different time
than Rome.
And good luck supporting calendars that even ICU doesn't know about.
Non-Gregorian calendars are a huge can of worms. Let's put the lid
back on right away.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http
that history teachers with basic Web skills or
support guys are up to the task of dealing with computer processable
dates in any case other than the Gregorian calendar starting with
1930s or so (without timezones :-).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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web pages to display other sorts of
calendar.
I expect a widget designed for choosing Gregorian dates to be
unsuited for arbitrary calendars.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
flagged, and for dynamic document authors it isn't a
particularly good idea to leave the DOM in an incoherent state for
prolonged times.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
is in the realm of expecting future AI-complete magic
software to fix things. In general, that's not a good assumption to
make.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
compatibility issues).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Aug 29, 2006, at 10:44, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Should one expect HTML table row/column integrity to become an
HTML5 conformance requirement?
My plan is to spend November prototyping conformance checker parts
that don't belong in the parser, don't belong in schemas (RELAX NG
On Oct 24, 2006, at 09:39, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 12:52:44 +0200, Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think this proposal is definitely worth considering. Would it
have any ill effects on scripting compatibility with Appendix C
XHTML soup served as text/html
.
On a related note, a potentially interesting feature of a conformance
checker would be to output the document outline so that a human can
check
that that is correct.
Noted as a feature request for the future. :-)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
is supposed to make or
even enforce.
How so?
The colon is not allowed in a local name, so having xml:lang in no
namespace in a namespace-aware system is forbidden.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
in particular?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
mutually exclusive? Do you mean HTML should be frozen and
accessibility work should focus on UAs and authoring practices using
the frozen HTML?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Oct 31, 2006, at 01:03, Øistein E. Andersen wrote:
On 23 Oct 2006, at 12:43PM, Henri Sivonen wrote:
Using custom schemas with the HTML parser is for experts only
and produces very wrong results unless the schema is suitable.
Indeed so, but then any tool can potentially be misused.
Still
out but they also have an interest in
the portfolios.
P.S. Those who read Finnish may be interested in
http://www.effi.org/sananvapaus/videotiedostomuoto.html
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
in mind./p
pciteMark:/cite What makes you think that?/p
/dialog
Why is that better than dl?
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
to contradict a strict reading of the first quote.)
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
as 1.
Test case:
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/test/wa10/tables/colspan-0.html
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
,
wouldn't
this just cause img to get those bugs?
Also, it would cause further divergence between the serializations...
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
in) HTML -- I think there are things I would change in
the current draft, but there seems little point talking about
which markup elements should or shouldn't exist without having
some overall framework against which the merit of various
proposals can be measured.
+1.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL
not introducing namespace *syntax* to the text/
html serialization. In fact, HTML5 requires UAs to put HTML elements
in the XHTML namespace.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Nov 4, 2006, at 17:19, Henri Sivonen wrote:
I think that text/html conformance needs to be defined in such a
way that everything that is meaningful can be conveyed through the
SAX2 ContentHandler interface (with qNames ignored) without
violating any explicit or implicit parts of the API
could optimize away the DOM but
would still have to keep the entire CSS frame tree in memory (at
least when there's generated content that depends on later page
numbers).
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
Is there a reason why the definition of space characters does not
match the XML 1.0 and RELAX NG definition of white space (space, tab,
CR, LF) but also includes (line tabulation and form feed)? Is the
deviation from XML 1.0 needed for backwards compatibility with text/
html UAs?
--
Henri
with browsers when it comes to the
handling of non-conforming documents.
--
Henri Sivonen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
On Nov 5, 2006, at 01:19, Elliotte Harold wrote:
Henri Sivonen wrote:
Anne is talking about the text/html serialization, which is
supposed to be parsed using an HTML5 parser. It is a special-
purpose alternative serialization for a subset of possible
infosets--like RELAX NG Compact Syntax
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