!DOCTYPE html6 would be an abomination, unless the root element changes to
html6 also :-)
The specification says:
For historical reasons, if the URL is a javascript: URL, then the user agent
must not, despite the requirements in the definition of the fetching
algorithm, actually execute the given script; instead the user agent must
act as if it had received an empty HTTP 400 response.
The comparison to Don Quixote is skew; HTML (hopefully) improves while
spoken languages (just as currencies) deteriorate.
Chris
-Original Message-
From: whatwg-boun...@lists.whatwg.org
[mailto:whatwg-boun...@lists.whatwg.org] On Behalf Of Eduard Pascual
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:12
As the Eolas or RIM cases show, patent trolls can wait for a very long time
until they are sure that their victim has no way out. It does not prove
that Theora is clean that Google has not been sued yet.
IMHO,
Chris
A clean way to insert extraneous elements into SGML is to use NOTATION
entities. This does not work for HTML and it has never worked, although TBL
did have such an idea for images at the very beginning. It cannot be done
because it is extremely inconvenient for the author/publisher and very
Small authors are hardly an alternative to YouTube because they use YouTube
(or a similar service) to publish their content. Neither do YouTube publish
most of the stuff on their own; they only allow the authors to do it using
YT technology.
In short, if you do not have the know-how to serve your
Regarding DOMTokenList, why not:
contains(): true
add,remove,toggle(): no effect?
Are there situations that would require an exception to be thrown, or else
the page would go out in a blast?
Chris
For those of you that are concerned whether Microsoft will support web
video: Internet Explorer already does, albeit in the Microsoft WayT:
* dynsrc Property (IMG, INPUT, INPUT type=image, ...)
URL:http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533742(VS.85).aspx
:-)
Not loading cross-domain images in e-mail messages is a standard privacy
feature e.g. in Microsoft Outlook. (Indeed, that means that Microsoft
Outlook does not allow any external images, only attachments).
The workaround, to save as a HTML document and view in browser, should work.
If the images
Audible mouse feedback is an OS thing, not an HTML thing.
I would rather have programmatic access to the MIDI synthesizer rather than
be able to simulate it with a beep.
How do you detect that the client mixer is too slow?
Why can't you just get the premixed jingles from the server?
Isn't the
I have addressed all Andrew's points previously. Please forgive my posting
an outline of the arguments here.
1. The specification does not encourage using the SMALL element for legal
notices. It merely allows the SMALL element to contain legal notices.
2. Legal texts are unreadable on their
Regarding the fear of Trojan codecs: it would help if third-party plug-ins
for codecs could be sandboxed so that they cannot have access to anything
they do not have to access in order to do their job, and only via an API
provided by the host.
IMHO,
Chris
Clearly allowing a third-party codec to reprogram a hardware DSP would be
one of the silliest things to do.
(If it turns out that I cannot answer to something important from now on,
assume I am banned for using an offensive word.)
Chris
The CITE tag does not mean I am a citation. It is as confusing for
novices as can be but the specification cannot do anything about it because
it is already established. It means Citing what? and it does not mean
Citing whom?. A book title is the obvious answer to this question. As I
If more then titles means other uses of the CITE tag, as evidenced in [1],
they do not form any pattern. They look more like random errors.
If more then titles means title and something else, I do not see much
harm in such syntax.
Chris
[1] http://philip.html5.org/data/cite.txt.
Even if Apple decides to implement Ogg Theora, iPod users will still get
QuickTime served and get a better rendering because the common codec is the
failsafe solution and will be specified as the last one. This phenomenon is
expected to happen for any platform, not just Apple's. I cannot see how
Assuming bandwidth will increase with technological advance, it seems
unreasonable that the bandwidth issue is allowed to block fallback solutions
such as PCM within a specification that is expected to live longer than
three years from now.
IMHO,
Chris
Cellular phone signal strength bars are not implemented on top of Web
Sockets so this cannot make a use case. This is rather a hardware thing.
On the other hand, I concur that a network queue overflow should be handled
differently than an out-of-memory condition. For example, if you have an
Given the evident complexity of the Web Sockets protocol with respect to
acknowledgements, events and updating host state for the script, is there a
modelling diagram to view?
Chris
Attributes are placed inside the start tag, and consist of a name and
a value, separated by an = character. The attribute value can be
left unquoted if it is a keyword [*or a number*].
IMHO,
Chris
A server serving documents containing references to content from other
sites, embedded or not, does not distribute that content. It would only
redistribute in case of hot piping. Some sites have a policy disallowing
publishing backdoor hyperlinks; the legal implications of such a policy are
If browsers start refusing cross-domain image requests, some servers will
work around this problem using hot piping. I am not sure this would be
good-but I cannot say it would be bad either.
IMHO,
Chris
You can easily include a cross-domain script using a cross-domain DTD; just
attach the malware as
!ATTLIST body onload CDATA { sniper.shoot(); }
and hope for the worst.
Chris
Unlike in previous versions, the DOM is the skeleton and the underlying
model of the specification. Even if there are sections that do not
reference the DOM explicitly, a reader that tries to apply them to anything
will not probably be able to draw the right conclusions without a basic
knowledge
A lede is a summary or an invitation to read the whole article.
It is semantically relevant; the reader may ask, e.g., Give me the ledes
and I shall choose what I would like to read. Asking for the first
paragraph of each article is not that practical, as the article need not
contain a lede
The first video source that can be played wins. You cannot provide
alternative versions for different languages or resolutions in one VIDEO
element.
Chris
Media queries can be done the same way as for images. Similarly, the server
can choose to serve a localized version of any resource whatsoever. These
customizations should not be put into VIDEO because their scope is wider.
IMHO,
Chris
The common JavaScript libraries should be identified using urn scheme with
JavaScript namespace, as in
script src=urn:JavaScript:cool-acme-lib:1.0 /script
Chris
URI are expected to be readable. If we admit that many HTTP URL aren't
readable and there is little we can do about that, maybe we could stretch
the URN a bit to allow a hash in it?
Chris
I would consider it a big advantage to the posterity if the descriptions and
the algorithms were better formulated and ready to be understood in plain
text. For example, regarding 2.8.3 DOMTokenList, (see appendix).
LEGEND
Code samples are in braces; my comments are in brackets, and so are
How would you hide the NOSTYLE element for legacy browsers that support
STYLE?
What about browsers that support an alternative style type and not CSS?
(This is academic, I know, but here you have NOSTYLE where you really mean
NOCSS :-()
Chris
Uniqueness of tokens can be determined in O(n) only* if the tokens are
ordered in the source (any order would do) but there is no such requirement,
and it cannot be required for compatibility with the content in the wild and
because the standard supports inserting new tokens.
It is possible to
The complexity of using a set/map is logarithmic in the size of the set.
Multiply by the number of steps, you get what it takes.
Chris
The complexity of using a set implemented as hash table is quadratic in the
number of elements because of hash collisions.
Chris
Actually aligning vulgar fractions is not even a CSS thing, it is an
OpenType thing.
Chris
The ability to extract stack trace information from an exception is a script
language feature; it has nothing to do with HTML.
Chris
While we are at RDF, I would like to complain that the concept Rendered
content goes into metadata is good for English, Chinese and Bulgarian but
it is inappropriate for inflected languages like Polish or Finnish (Finnish
is also agglutinative, to make matters worse). Any decision along these
Microsoft has recently invented and deployed a custom ActiveX component to
drop local files onto Live Spaces. This component is undocumented and it is
probably limited to the Spaces service.
Chris
A JavaScript-based viewer for images can overlay an image within an IFRAME
and the IFRAME may contain the license link.
HTH,
Chris
* Let a COLOR element have a value DOM property in the DOM that returns a
color.
* Let a NUMBER element has a value DOM property that returns a number.
Actually, the latter use case is one I have bumped into:
* The DOM does not provide a numeric value,
* JavaScript support for parsing localized
The problem of W3C DTD DDoS does not apply to CURIE because software
processing RDF does not need to retrieve the resources referenced on a
regular basis. Even in the case of DTD, the problem is that some software
does not cache, not that some software tries to access it.
IMHO,
Chris
Regarding your example:
cite class=bibliography-item
Smith, John. iThe Triumph of HTML 5/i. 2015.
New York: Faraway Press. /cite
I think we can agree that one could use such a syntax outside of running
text, as in appendices, footnotes and the like. There is no much harm
People are reluctant to learn new tools and new ways. Most of the time it
is a sane protection from overwhelming abundance. It is not limited to
programming languages, it can affect also video encoders. It even affects
telephones (some people dislike telephones with keys).
Bjarne Stroustrup on
The VIDEO element will not be useless without a common decoder. Its
usefulness depends on its content: it will be limited to user agents that
support at least one encoding offered by the author. Even if a common
decoder is specified, many authors will not use it because they do not know
it, they
Instead of:
liqMan is the only animal that laughs and weeps./qbr / --
citeWilliam Hazlitt/cite/li
Consider:
liqMan is the only animal that laughs and weeps./qbr /
(William Hazlitt)/li
Reads equally good, if not better.
Bibliographic references are a topic of its own, and it is not
Vulgar fractions should be supported in hypertext markup without recourse to
MathML. They are vulgar, after all. Requiring the full-blown math
rendering engine for everyday business activities, cooking and the like is
hardly acceptable for authors that use vulgar fractions for quantities and
I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect authors to enter their markup
in a TEXTAREA box with no bells and whistles. I am not against MathML math
(of course) but requiring MathML for cooking recipes is wrong.
Chris
Small-print legalese is dull, repetitive, has little to do with the actual
content, requires a trained lawyer to read and usually contains almost no
markup. Sites often wrap it in a scrollable box so that it does not
interfere with the page. Even if the target reader manages to read that
stuff,
The level of surprise of an article cited as a book is far smaller than a
real author looking like a fictitious person, as in the default rendering of
CITE Aristotle/CITE said.
Not everybody is an expert in scholarly style guides but most readers feel
the difference between direct speech
The ActiveX components I use are proprietary non-standard technology.
Granted. However, the interface to them, HTML, is standard and
non-proprietary. Of course, one can use proprietary extensions like
namespaces and data sources as well, and sometimes it is necessary for
rendering and data
Rendering the name Aristotle in italic by itself, if not used for
emphasis, indicates that the name is used in an oblique, indirect way,
perhaps referring to a fictitious person or a nickname, the person referred
to as Aristotle by a 3rd party. Please do not ask me why this is so; I
shall not be
The HTML element cannot have a FIELDSET element as a child. It can,
however, have a FRAMESET element as a child.
Chris
The definition of uppercasing in HTML does not apply to element names
because getting them is covered by the DOM specification and not by the HTML
specification. This is all right with me; I only think that saying to
uppercase ASCII explicitly is not necessary.
Chris
The validator generates an error for the classid attribute (in line with
what the specification says, I think). An error, unlike a warning, breaks
any complex process that depends on successful validation of the components.
I think the specification text should be rephrased so that the validator
Regarding
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/infrastructure.
html#weeks:
A week begins on Sunday, not on Monday.
However, under the present assumption:
Better:
A week-year has 53 weeks if the first day of the year (January 1st)
in the proleptic Gregorian calendar
I was wrong: CONST values and conditional compilation variables land as
properties of the window, which means they are unavailable to other scripts
only if the defining script is external and deferred.
Still, I do not think this behavior is mandatory for run-time; there may be
symbols that are
Inserting a SCRIPT element is not equivalent to a server-side include. It
is more like linking to an object file. In particular, substitution macros
(e.g. CONST in BASIC) in one script do not apply other scripts (all scripts
present have already been parsed, and applying them to future scripts
The localization of your site starts with connection negotiation where the
representation of resources served depends on the browser's language of
choice. Configuring the server to support this needs some technical
expertise, and so does using a server-side scripting language.
External DTD
I certainly want refresh to redo, for example, when validating a local
document that I am editing.
Chris
If the local document is being edited in Notepad and bound to the validator
via a file input control, refreshing the page should resubmit the file.
Chris
If markup for a publication identifier in a reference is required, can this
identifier be an URN-encoded? The NID will tell what kind of an identifier
it is.
I have used q cite=urn:ISBN:whatever myself, perhaps not quite in line
with the definition of the Q element but, since the cite attribute
AFAIK, WebKit is not going to validate XML, they say it makes page load too
slow. Besides, entities introduce a security risk because it can contain
incomplete syntax fragments and they can open a path to XML injection into,
say, ![DANGER[span title=malicious-entity; sweet kittens/span ]].
So XML
Being unable to deal with all use cases sometimes is a feature. For
example, regular expressions are unable to recognize all recursive
languages; it is a feature. As a compensation for that loss, they do not
suffer from the halting problem.
HTH,
Chris
Using entities in XSL to share code was my mistake once too; it is similar
to using data members not wrapped in properties in data types. XSL itself
provides a better structured approach for code reuse.
Being able to use localized programming language constructs is at the same
time trivial
DOMTokenList, as an object, is semantically unordered, therefore an
arbitrary ordering can be used for enumeration. The item method of
DOMTokenList provides an enumerator and imposes such an ordering.
Since no other enumerator is available to counter the claim, it may be
tempting to say, as a
I do not think anybody in WHATWG hates the CURIE tool; however, the
following problems have been put forward:
Copy-Paste
The CURIE mechanism is considered inconvenient because is not
copy-paste-resilient, and the associated risk is that semantic elements
would randomly change their
Links do not contribute to the behavior the meaning of the text contained
within them and not to its meaning. which does not depend on whether the
link is broken or not. Moreover, whether the linked resource can be
retrieved at all depends on the URI scheme, as in href=mailto:u...@domain;.
The
I understand that there are ways to recover resources that disappear from
the Web; however, the postulated advantage of RDFa you can go see what it
means simply does not hold. The recovery mechanism, Web search/cache,
would be as good for CURIE URL as for domain prefixes. Creating a redirect
is
Classes in com.sun.* are reserved for Java implementation details and should
not be used by the general public. CURIE URL are intended for general use.
So, I can say Well, it is not the same, because it is not.
Cheers,
Chris
Serving the RDFa vocabulary from the own domain is not always possible, e.g.
when a reader of a Web site is encouraged to post a comment to the page she
reads and her comment contains semantic annotations.
The probability of a URL becoming unavailable is much greater than that of
both mirrored
The problem of cybersquatting of oblique domains is, I believe, described
and addressed in tag URI scheme definition [RFC4151], which I think is
something rather similar to the constructs used for HTML microdata. I think
that document is relevant not only to this discussion but to the whole
If a token list represented an ordered set, it could not be sorted to get an
item because the host would have to preserve the original (document) order
of tokens.
Chris
The main problem with prefixes is that the meaning of prefixes is not
preserved when a code fragment is pasted elsewhere, so that prefixed names
can end up meaningless or having an entirely different meaning from what the
author had intended. A similar problem arises with DTD entities (indeed,
The rel=license example in
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/history.html#li
nk-type-license
looks like:
body
h1Kissat/h1
nav a href=../Return to photo index/a /nav
img src=/pix/39627052_fd8dcd98b5.jpg
pOne of them has six toes!/p
...
/body
I would say that
HTML5 elements live in the DOM, and markup creates two (preferable) ways to
persist HTML5 documents and fragments. But in principle you could persist
them as JSON equally well (probably making your site inaccessible to bots),
with a few framework exceptions just to bootstrap the browser. It is
One thing XHTML(2) does not provide is resilience to invalid code, which is
very important for sites featuring third-party content like advertisements,
or user-generated content like blogs. Script-only add-ons like database
access and Web sockets in HTML5 are a big advantage for Web applications
Automatic conversion from Microsoft Word to HTML is doomed to fail because
the document models and the requirements are different. The best you can
get is a tree of DIVs and SPANs with Word-specific classes. Anything better
needs a serious and thoughtful remake by the editor.
HTH,
Chris
Do you mean that the vendors will correctly interpret references to
characters as references to glyphs but they will fail to understand
references to glyphs as themselves? That would be rather weird, IMHO.
Chris
Regarding 4.10.4.2.4 The size attribute
URL:http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#
the-size-attribute:
The user does not see characters, she sees glyphs. If the text input
control uses a variable-spaced typeface, the user agent must consider the
maximum glyph
My explanation:
Since the terms defined within a DL are normally unique (each term is
defined exactly once), DL is inappropriate for marking up dialogue where the
speakers talk in turns.
HTH,
Chris
The algorithm [1] for converting a character width to pixels is good indeed,
except that it should be formulated in terms of glyphs and not characters
because stand-alone characters are not displayed or perceived as such for
some scripts.
If the primary font for which the algorithm is being run
IMHO the one definition rule is common knowledge and belongs to what
constitutes reasonable content; the HTML specification should not try to
replace common sense or enforce logical correctness of the author's
publication.
Chris
A CODE element can belong to a class related to the programming language,
e.g.
* CODE class=HTML
* CODE class=JavaScript
* CODE class=Python
A future version of CSS can provide a property for syntax coloring.
IMHO,
Chris
Using the word glyph instead of character, where appropriate, obviously
does not improve the readability of the specification. However, not using
the word glyph makes that part simply incorrect for a large number of
people whose culture has the disadvantage of being ignored by the leading
As a reminder, the syntax {new Option()} (Netscape DOM) is deprecated to the
syntax {document.createElement(OPTION)} (W3C DOM). The requested syntax
{new Event()} would be inconsistent with that design decision. OTOH, the
syntax {new XMLHTTPRequest()} has already been adopted, perhaps because
The DOCTYPE is required and it should be. That way, the text introduces
itself and instructs the reader about the expected renderer (in absence of
external metadata).
I have seen several products (mail readers and proxies, on-line help
systems, fora etc.) trying to interpret every text as HTML,
The header element is not for the page header, it is for grouping section
headings, and the tag name chosen for this element is misleading.
HTH,
Chris
A group of headings looks as follows:
header
h1 Romeo and Juliet/h1
h3 a tragedy in Italian style/h3 /header
This is meant to replace the clumsy HTML4 way:
H1 Romeo and Juliet BR SMALL a tragedy in Italian style/SMALL /H1
HTH,
Chris
I guess I would prefer a DOM property to retrieve the declared start time of
embedded media to an explicit attribute. It would me more consistent and
tamper-proof.
Chris
Character set x-x-big5 cannot be registered because it is private.
Now that classid is gone, what will be the workaround for ActiveX objects
where they are needed?
1. Ask Windows browsers to support
Type=application/x-oleobject;classid=...?
2. Use a custom DTD with classid for
The specification forbids the authors using undefined elements and
attributes; a document containing classid will not be valid. Still, the
site hosting the controls will need a way to test validity of pages for QA.
Chris
I suppose that converting a string to uppercase is an action relevant only
to cases where only ASCII character set is allowed in the argument, such as
HTML element names. Within this restricted application domain, converting
to uppercase has the same effect as converting to uppercase ASCII.
data-* attributes allow XML name characters and they are converted to lower
case in HTML (ASCII, AIUI).
BTW, editorial correction for 3.3.3.8
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#embedd
ing-custom-non-visible-data : should be its name contains no characters in
the
An attribute named data-K is allowed.
It seems that getting the element name is not covered at all, it is a core
interface, so definitions in the HTML specification do not apply.
Chris
I think text input controls should be disabled for HTML notifications so
that notification windows cannot benefit from posing as something else.
Chris
Phone numbers do have a strictly defined format, and the definition is
provided by ITU-T E.123.
HTH,
Chris.
It is not clear that the server will be able to correctly support various
representations of characters in the path component, e.g. identify accented
characters with their decompositions using combining diacritical marks. The
peculiarities can depend on the underlying file system conventions.
Scripts, and worker scripts in particular, should use application media
type; using text/javascript is obsolete. [RFC4329#3].
Chris
IFRAME where SRC=javascript:... has the same disk full problem as
Canvas.toTempURL, and a DOS attack can also be launched simply by creating a
large array that will fill the hard drive with virtual memory. In general,
handling OOM conditions is not covered by the specification.
Chris
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