Laurens Holst wrote:
Matthew Raymond schreef:
Sure, native video playback, yay. But what has that got to do with
creating a video element instead of using object. Objects can play
Theora, too, you know. Natively. Just like browsers can render SVG in
object tags, natively.
It's
Laurens Holst wrote:
One of the main reasons that object is still broken on the web and why
embed needs to be used is Mozilla; their plugin finder doesn’t work
with object.
I'm sorry, but that's false. See my other post (under Re: video element
feedback) and
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 13:59:14 +0200, Benoit Piette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the same train of thought, a document tag might be useful. I always
found anoying that for many embeded documents (word or pdf) you would have a
second user interface that have similar functionnality to the web
From HTML 4.01:
type = content-type [CI]
This attribute specifies the content type for the data specified by data.
This attribute is
optional but recommended when data is specified since it allows the user agent
to avoid loading
information for unsupported content types. If the value of
On Mar 18, 2007, at 4:21 PM, Matthew Ratzloff wrote:
Slightly more complex use case:
object classid=clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B
codebase=http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab;
width=200
height=16
param name=src value=my-audio.mp3 /
param
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
Quality, size, etc. have all been goals of the Theora project, so it's
not really fair to say that they haven't been considered. There is no
technical reason why Theora shouldn't be specified as a baseline format.
I think you took that out of context.
Vladimir Vukicevic wrote:
If providing content in non-Theora formats is important, the client
should list the supported video formats in the Accept header, and the
server can send
back the right thing.
[snip]
Though as has been pointed out by someone else earlier in the thread,
the MIME
Gareth Hay wrote:
Sure. What happens if you're taking old videos of a page because
you moved them to a site like YouTube? How would you tell them apart
from other content in the page that might require object, like SVG
graphics and such?
I think this kind of reasoning leads us logically to
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
I don't see how you're going to avoid that with
video unless you intend to make it a non-pluggable system, which does
not seem like a good idea.
I think that was the idea. I don't need plugins for certain media files,
e.g., GIF, JPEG, and PNG (and
Håkon Wium Lie schrieb:
What WHATWG has been shooting for, is one common codec. At this point,
WHATWG folks want Theora.
Yes, it's a likable format. If anyone has better ideas, this is the
time to step forward.
There's Dirac in development right now. That's a next generation wavelet
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
As I said before, I think we have a lot better chance at getting a common,
cross-browser, cross-platform format with MPEG 4. The reason WHAT WG
proposed Theora is *because* it is FOSS, not for quality, size, ease of
implementation, or anything else (as far
Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
As I said before, I think we have a lot better chance at getting a common,
cross-browser, cross-platform format with MPEG 4. The reason WHAT WG
proposed Theora is *because* it is FOSS, not for quality, size, ease of
implementation, or
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:57:01 +0100, Nicholas Shanks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All said, it would be very useful if the startpos param could be
returned to the server when starting the download, or when scrubbing
forward into parts of the video that haven't yet downloaded. as that
would help
Hi Matthew,
Very cool set of test cases.
Would it be cool to make them as individual files and send them as
attachments.
On the same line, this is a testing for object, W3C QA and WASP
organised two years ago. Most recent information is missing. So if
you have a browser please add it.
Le 16 mars 2007 à 20:23, Matthew Raymond a écrit :
Laurens Holst wrote:
| object data=TheEarth.mpeg type=video/ogg-theora/object
In fact
by http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#adef-type-OBJECT
type is optional, it is exactly the same
object data=TheEarth.mpeg/object
On 3/16/07, Dean Edridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the idea of having an attribute for the aspect ratio of a video
is a great idea, especially given the fact that web sites today should
be as fluid / liquid as possible since there is a need to cater for a
range of different screen sizes.
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:56:53 +0100, Shadow2531 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
For example, every video page on a site might have a 400 x 400 video
element (to fit with the layout for example), but the video that plays
in it will range in size and aspect ratio.
A way to solve that so the layout of
On 3/17/07, Anne van Kesteren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:56:53 +0100, Shadow2531 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
For example, every video page on a site might have a 400 x 400 video
element (to fit with the layout for example), but the video that plays
in it will range in size
Laurens Holst wrote:
So make the object mime type optional, only indicative. It will receive
it from the server anyway.
The problem with dropping the MIME type is that files on the Internet
don't require extensions. They already have MIME types. Therefore, as a
web author looking at someone
I don't see the problem with this.
Object is a tag to represent just about anything, even text/html
renders in an object.
Can you identify a use case where you *need* to know before you get a
content-type header?
Gaz
On 17 Mar 2007, at 15:17, Matthew Raymond wrote:
Laurens Holst wrote:
Gareth Hay wrote:
I don't see the problem with this.
Object is a tag to represent just about anything, even text/html
renders in an object.
Can you identify a use case where you *need* to know before you get a
content-type header?
Sure. What happens if you're taking old videos of a
Matthew Raymond wrote:
Sure. What happens if you're taking old videos of a page because you
moved them to a site like YouTube? How would you tell them apart from
other content in the page that might require object, like SVG graphics
and such?
With HEAD requests? A personal spidering tool
In theory, standardized file extensions or type attributes allows
non-supporting browsers to not issue a request for the content, if they
could trust producers to correctly label content
Or at least it would, if user agents could trust producers to correctly
label their content. But even if
Current browsers do treat object differently based on type. For
example, if an object has a type attribute in the set
application/foobar or video/foobar or audio/foobar or
foobar/foobar ELinks stable will stick a link to it above its
rendition of the fallback content. With no type attribute or
On 16 Mar 2007, at 23:58, Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
I'd rather make video and audio optional so that those who
cannot
support these Ogg on these elements (for whatever reason) can still
comply with the spec. They can also support proprietary codecs
through
Also sprach Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis:
Sure. What happens if you're taking old videos of a page because you
moved them to a site like YouTube? How would you tell them apart from
other content in the page that might require object, like SVG graphics
and such?
With HEAD requests? A
Also sprach Geoffrey Sneddon:
Yes. If a vendor, for some reason, is unable to support the Ogg
codecs, I think it's better that they (a) do not support video, than
(b) they support video with proprietary codecs only.
Interoperability has more value than conformace.
I think
According to the draft for object there is no requirement to specify
the mime type in object tag anyway, so I'm guessing some people will
never specify it.
f the file fails to load, you don't have a
MIME type at all, so what kind of presentation would a broken video
have
on the page if
Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
On a mobile phone, it's expensive and slow to perform HEAD requests.
I can well believe that, but the question becomes: are the types
reported in the type attribute sufficiently reliable for mobile phone
purposes? i.e. can phone browsers safely ignore embedded content if
(oops, this is a re-send of an email I sent only to Ian Hixie. I keep
pressing the wrong reply button :-( )
On 3/15/07, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the meantime, here's replies to the comments I got.
Wow. Nice.
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
Opera has some
Also sprach Laurens Holst:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#video
Correct me if I
Benjamin West wrote:
On 3/15/07, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.loop, .startpos
loop = false | true
autostart = true | false
startpos = 0 | specified pos
Could you elaborate on the use cases for these?
Can't these be done in script?
Those attributes are basic values you'd want
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 04:39:07 +0100, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ON PLAYLISTS
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Shadow2531 wrote:
The handler should also support some type of playlist like
http://www.xspf.org/.
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote:
#3: Playlists. (A single
Discussion on aspect ratio:
You may want to consider aspect ratio too: ratio=preserve being
default, ratio=1.333 could indicate 4:3 or get tricky and accept
16:9 for precision reasons.
Wouldn't we simply always want to use the authored size?
Do videos encode what size they are best
Laurens Holst wrote:
Sure, native video playback, yay. But what has that got to do with
creating a video element instead of using object. Objects can play
Theora, too, you know. Natively. Just like browsers can render SVG in
object tags, natively.
It's all about ease of authoring. If
On 3/15/07, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ON PLAYLISTS
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Shadow2531 wrote:
The handler should also support some type of playlist like
http://www.xspf.org/.
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006, Charles Iliya Krempeaux wrote:
#3: Playlists. (A single video file just won't cut
On 16 Mar 2007, at 15:32, Shadow2531 wrote:
.loop, .startpos
loop = false | true
autostart = true | false
startpos = 0 | specified pos
Could you elaborate on the use cases for these?
video src=VideoIWasWatching.ogg
param name=startpos value=value gotten from cookie where I
left off at
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 07:23:53 -0400, Matthew Raymond
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you know the MIME type for Ogg Theora? I don't. I made it up. If
the MIME type on the object listed doesn't say video in it, would you
even know if the object element was for a video???
application/ogg,
--- Matthew Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's all about ease of authoring. If you were new to HTML, would you
want to do this...
| object data=TheEarth.mpeg type=video/ogg-theora/object
...Or this...
| video src=TheEarth.mpeg/video
Do you know the MIME type for Ogg
This topic is worrying me slightly, as I can only see two possible
outcomes :-
using object for everything,
images object type=image/jpeg data=some.jpg
video object type=application/ogg data=video.ogg
or defining separate tags for all possible content :-
image
video
Huh? Huh? I don't seem to recall stating a preference, just that in
my opinion you have one or the other, but it's hard to justify both.
So you are advocating the later approach then? dispose of the
object tag and just have
imgvideosoundflashscriptto infinity and beyond etc?
Gareth
On 16
I think it would be useful if fragment identifiers in URL could specify
starting position of video. This would let anyone to bookmark position in
the video without having to worry about (lack of) site-specific navigation
and UI for seeking.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:mm:ss
(I'm not sure how
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 20:55 +, Gareth Hay wrote:
As I can't see how it can be a mix and match of the two approaches.
Why not? It seems pretty pragmatic to have first-class support for
the handful of common cases and have an escape hatch for generic
objects.
--
...jsled
Gareth Hay wrote:
Huh? Huh? I don't seem to recall stating a preference, just that in my
opinion you have one or the other, but it's hard to justify both.
So you are advocating the later approach then? dispose of the object
tag and just have
imgvideosoundflashscriptto infinity and beyond
Andrew Sidwell said:
flash would be a poor choice of
something to put in a spec, simply because its use case is already
handled by object.
I wouldn't say it that way. I'd say because flash requires a browser
plugin, we use object. Video is already handled by object but we don't
want it to
Ok, I could understand that approach, with things like imgvideo
handled internally.
Is there then a case for doing object properly by specifying a
replacement, something like plugin / extern?
Gaz
On 16 Mar 2007, at 22:15, Robert Brodrecht wrote:
Andrew Sidwell said:
flash would be a
Gareth Hay said:
Ok, I could understand that approach, with things like imgvideo
handled internally.
Is there then a case for doing object properly by specifying a
replacement, something like plugin / extern?
Something that is bugging me over on the W3C HTMLWG mailing list is the
want to
Also sprach Ian Hickson:
ON THE CODEC
...
Given this, I would suggest Ogg Theora be the natively supported video
format common to all browsers. It's designed from the beginning to be
unencumbed. And implementations for it already exist under licenses
that should make everyone
Håkon Wium Lie said:
I'd rather make video and audio optional so that those who cannot
support these Ogg on these elements (for whatever reason) can still
comply with the spec. They can also support proprietary codecs through
object.
Do you mean make the elements themselves optional to
Also sprach Robert Brodrecht:
I'd rather make video and audio optional so that those who cannot
support these Ogg on these elements (for whatever reason) can still
comply with the spec. They can also support proprietary codecs through
object.
Do you mean make the elements
Wow, what a lot of feedback on video! I've added a video element, with
basic features, but really what we need is feedback from video experts.
In the meantime, here's replies to the comments I got. I haven't quoted
all the e-mails, since many said the same thing or went in circles (well,
they
Le 16 mars 2007 à 12:39, Ian Hickson a écrit :
Wow, what a lot of feedback on video! I've added a video element,
with
basic features, but really what we need is feedback from video
experts.
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#video
--
Karl Dubost -
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