Re: [whatwg] setting location.hash property and browser reload

2009-07-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
Ian Hickson wrote: HTML5 requires that there not be a reload. Setting location.hash eventually (if you follow the admittedly convoluted definitions) is equivalent to running the navigation algorithm: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#navigate ...which, in step 4, just

[whatwg] Selectable category tree, nested optgroups?

2009-07-09 Thread Oldřich Vetešník
Hi, Imagine you have a (for example) category tree like this: * Cars * Sporty * Limo * 18 wheeler * Bloody good * Big * Places to live in * Villa * Flat * Under bridge ... and you are to select one for your article of some sort. optgroup isn't capable of doing this at the

[whatwg] Serializing HTML fragments (9.4)

2009-07-09 Thread Kartikaya Gupta
According to this section 9.4, any descendant text node of a style element should be outputted literally, rather than being escaped. However, this doesn't seem to match what Opera/Chrome/FF do. Test case: html body style id=test /style script type=text/javascript var test =

Re: [whatwg] Codecs for audio and video

2009-07-09 Thread Philip Jägenstedt
On Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:24:42 +0200, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: On 7/8/09 2:20 AM, Philip Jagenstedt wrote: On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:45:41 +0200, Charles Pritchard ch...@jumis.com wrote: At some point, a Blob / Stream API could make things like this easier. If the idea is to

[whatwg] DOMTokenList: mutation clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Sylvain Pasche
Hi, 1) in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#common-dom-interfaces When the attribute is absent, then the string represented by the object is the empty string; when the object mutates this empty string, the user agent must first add the corresponding content attribute, and

Re: [whatwg] Serializing HTML fragments (9.4)

2009-07-09 Thread Boris Zbarsky
Kartikaya Gupta wrote: Opera and Chrome will alert c1somegt;stuff/c1morestuff (escaping the angle bracket inside the child element) and Firefox just outputs morestuff (presumably a bug). It's actually rather purposeful, at least in terms of the code. It'd be pretty easy to change to

[whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Gregg Tavares
Hello, I'm new to the list so I hope this is the right place and format. I've been having a look at the canvas API specification and I noticed at least one ambiguity. (I'm guessing those that have been on the list for a while are laughing) The specific ambiguity I'd like to bring up has to do

Re: [whatwg] the cite element

2009-07-09 Thread Brian Campbell
On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:53 AM, Ian Hickson wrote: I don't really understand what problem this is solving. HTML4 actually defined cite more like what you describe above; we changed it to be a title of work element rather than a citation element because that's actually how people were using it. I

Re: [whatwg] the cite element

2009-07-09 Thread Tab Atkins Jr.
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Brian Campbellbrian.p.campb...@dartmouth.edu wrote: On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:53 AM, Ian Hickson wrote: I don't really understand what problem this is solving. HTML4 actually defined cite more like what you describe above; we changed it to be a title of work

Re: [whatwg] A Selector-based metadata proposal (was: Annotating structured data that HTML has no semantics for)

2009-07-09 Thread Eduard Pascual
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Ian Hicksoni...@hixie.ch wrote: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009, Eduard Pascual wrote: I think this is a level of indirection too far -- when something is a heading, it should _be_ a heading, it shouldn't be labeled opaquely with a transformation sheet elsewhere

[whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread David Gerard
(this is not quite about the standard itself, but it is about how to use shiny new bits of it in real world practice) Wikimedia is preparing to use video (and quite likely HTML5 all through) for serving up Ogg Theora video in MediaWiki. Desktop is easy: * In the one released browser that

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
David Gerard wrote: * In the one released browser that supports video and Theora, Firefox 3.5, this will Just Work. Two! Firefox and Chrome. --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Aryeh Gregor
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:04 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I thought that was next Chrome, not this Chrome. It works in the developer version: http://dev.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel Also in experimental Opera builds: http://labs.opera.com/news/2008/11/25/ But

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
David Gerard wrote: 2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: David Gerard wrote: * In the one released browser that supports video and Theora, Firefox 3.5, this will Just Work. Two! Firefox and Chrome. Really? I thought that was next Chrome, not this Chrome. It seems

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread David Gerard
2009/7/9 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: * Everyone else gets the Cortado player (written in Java), with a link suggesting FF 3.5 for a better video experience. I should note, by the way, that this isn't a great option - second and subsequent videos in Cortado are just fine, but the thirty

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread David Gerard
2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: It seems you're rightish.  Google, as usual, is having lots of fun with their stable/beta/release distinctions.  See if you can decipher http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/ . At any rate, video is not supported in Chrome Stable,

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread David Gerard
2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: David Gerard wrote: * In the one released browser that supports video and Theora, Firefox 3.5, this will Just Work. Two! Firefox and Chrome. Really? I thought that was next Chrome, not this Chrome. What's ETA on the next Chrome? -

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: * In Safari with XiphQT, we can *probably* detect Theora's MIME type as being supported and it will Just Work (more or less). I'm now being told that our workaround of checking for system mime types stopped working and isn't

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread イアンフェッティ
2009/7/9 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com 2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: It seems you're rightish. Google, as usual, is having lots of fun with their stable/beta/release distinctions. See if you can decipher http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/ . At any

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Ralph Giles
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone got ideas on the iPhone problem? I think this is off topic, and I am not an iPhone developer, but: Assuming the app store terms allow video players, it should be possible to distribute some sort of dedicated player

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread David Gerard
2009/7/9 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com: As Peter said, please don't just block Chrome flat out -- if you must, just block Chrome under version 3. Note that when we push 3 to stable, everyone will be automatically updated. As version 3 is easily detectable, presumably we'd just

[whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Gregg Tavares
Hello, I'm new to the list so I hope this is the right place and format. I've been having a look at the canvas tag API specification and I noticed at least one ambiguity. (I'm guessing those that have been on the list for a while are laughing) The specific ambiguity I'd like to bring up has to

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Peter Kasting wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Aryeh Gregor Simetrical +...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:04 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I thought that was next Chrome, not this Chrome. It works in the developer version:

Re: [whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Oliver Hunt
I'd like to make a passionate plea that the spec say implementations must support negative widths and negative heights and draw the image backward effectively flipping the result. We'd need to be fairly sure that such a change would not break existing content -- this is a change that

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Jul 9, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: * In Safari with XiphQT, we can *probably* detect Theora's MIME type as being supported and it will Just Work (more or less). I'm now being told that our workaround of

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Maciej Stachowiakm...@apple.com wrote: I don't think we did anything intentional in 4.0.2 to break detection of XiphQT. If you have a solid reproducible case, please file a bug. On the other hand, I suspect the canPlayType fix will have shipped by the time we

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 7:24 PM, Maciej Stachowiakm...@apple.com wrote: I thought your plan was to use Cortado for plugins that don't have video+Theora. Why would you single out Safari users for a worse experience? As david mentioned, Cortado is a worse experience. What we've been planning was

Re: [whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Oliver Hunt
On Jul 9, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Gregg Tavares wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: I'd like to make a passionate plea that the spec say implementations must support negative widths and negative heights and draw the image backward effectively flipping

Re: [whatwg] page refresh and resubmitting POST state

2009-07-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009, Jeremy Orlow wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2009, Mike Wilson wrote: I was thinking about the resubmit problem in a general context, specifically how browsers could make it possible for web authors to create POSTing pages that avoids giving the dreaded do you want to

Re: [whatwg] page refresh and resubmitting POST state

2009-07-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Mike Wilson wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2009, Mike Wilson wrote: I was thinking about the resubmit problem in a general context, specifically how browsers could make it possible for web authors to create POSTing pages that avoids giving the dreaded do you want to

Re: [whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Gregg Tavares
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: On Jul 9, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Gregg Tavares wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Oliver Hunt oli...@apple.com wrote: I'd like to make a passionate plea that the spec say implementations must support negative widths and

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
2009/7/10 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com To me, this seems like a great test if canPlayType actually works in practice. In the perfect world, it would be great to do getElementById('video'), createElement, and then canPlayType('video/whatever','theora'). If this simple use case

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Robert O'Callahanrob...@ocallahan.org wrote: 2009/7/10 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com To me, this seems like a great test if canPlayType actually works in practice. In the perfect world, it would be great to do getElementById('video'), createElement,

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Robert O'Callahanrob...@ocallahan.org wrote: var v = document.getElementById(video); if (v.canPlayType v.canPlayType(video/ogg; codecs=vorbis,theora)) { ... } else { ...

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Jul 9, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Robert O'Callahanrob...@ocallahan.org wrote: 2009/7/10 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com To me, this seems like a great test if canPlayType actually works in practice. In the perfect world, it would

Re: [whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Brian Campbell
On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Oliver Hunt wrote: I disagree. When I scale a rectangular opaque image I expect rectangular opaque results. The Firefox implementation does not do this. If you believe that to be the case then you can always file a bug at bugs.webkit.org . Why would he file

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Maciej Stachowiak
On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Robert's code is a bit buggy; canPlayType returns a string, not a boolean, so it will always appear to say yes. You're being polite, my code was not a bit buggy,

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Robert's code is a bit buggy; canPlayType returns a string, not a boolean, so it will always appear to say yes. You're being polite, my code was not a bit buggy, it was completely broken. I've actually made this mistake

Re: [whatwg] Canvas context.drawImage clarification

2009-07-09 Thread Oliver Hunt
On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Brian Campbell wrote: On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Oliver Hunt wrote: I disagree. When I scale a rectangular opaque image I expect rectangular opaque results. The Firefox implementation does not do this. If you believe that to be the case then you can always

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Robert O'Callahan wrote: I actually anticipated this problem, and argued strenuously to break canPlayType into two boolean functions, canPlayType and cannotPlayType, but I lost. Hopefully most Web authors are

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Ralph Giles
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Maciej Stachowiakm...@apple.com wrote: I think at one point I suggested that canPlayType should return one of boolean false, true or maybe, so that naiive boolean tests would work. Or in any case, make the no option something that tests as boolean false. We

Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world

2009-07-09 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Ralph Giles gi...@xiph.org wrote: To recap (off the top of my head): it's hard to say if you can play something because that requires either a validator, or actually playing it, So in addition to 'yes' and 'no', a 'maybe' was added, to say I've heard of the