FWIW, Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons only allow unencumbered formats
on the site. Video MUST be Ogg Theora. Compressed audio better be Ogg.
wikipedia.org is something like #8 in the world at present, so this is
set to be a significant content repository actually used by people. A
video tag which
On 12/12/2007, Geoffrey Sneddon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12 Dec 2007, at 14:23, David Gerard wrote:
FWIW, Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons only allow unencumbered formats
on the site. Video MUST be Ogg Theora. Compressed audio better be Ogg.
Why must video just one of many unencumbered
On 12/12/2007, Geoffrey Sneddon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12 Dec 2007, at 17:44, David Gerard wrote:
On 12/12/2007, Geoffrey Sneddon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12 Dec 2007, at 14:23, David Gerard wrote:
FWIW, Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons only allow unencumbered
formats
On 12/12/2007, Geoffrey Sneddon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 12 Dec 2007, at 14:23, David Gerard wrote:
So far we have had zero patent trolls come calling. I wonder why
that is.
Do you have enough money to pay a fine a similar size to what MS got
last year? If you don't have enough money
On 12/12/2007, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not quite. That's one top-10 source of video that will greatly be
enabled by browsers supporting Theora.
Your claim (that it would benefit from the spec saying browsers SHOULD
support Theora) is only true if there are browsers which would only
On 13/12/2007, Andrew Sidwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote:
This is not the year 2000. Mozilla and Opera are embedding Theora video.
That's a user base large enough to force the rest of the players to get with
the program.
I very much doubt it. IE at least would
On 23/12/2007, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How could we do that? The codec is usually a relatively small download
download compared to the video itself. If we could suggest a way for
codecs to be provided alongside the videos by the content providers,
this /may/ be a way
On 24/12/2007, Krzysztof Żelechowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dnia 23-12-2007, N o godzinie 13:08 +, David Gerard pisze:
On 23/12/2007, Robert (Jamie) Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
How could we do that? The codec is usually a relatively small download
download compared to the video
On 07/01/2008, Dave Singer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 19:29 +0100 7/01/08, Federico Bianco Prevot wrote:
Has anyone considered Bink video as a viable option?
http://www.radgametools.com/bnkmain.htm
I get the impression that this is not an openly-specified codec,
which I rather think is a
Forgive me if this is a simple and obvious question. I note that all
current browsers (except IE, of course) implement SVG rendering (to a
better or worse degree). I'd like to be able to drop SVG images into
an HTML page as easily as I can a JPEG or PNG. I read over the
recently-released HTML5
On 23/01/2008, James Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In browsers which support it img src=foo.svg will work (with certain
limitations for security reasons).
img src=foo.svg is just what I was hoping for, thank you :-) Doesn't
yet seem to work in Safari 3.0.4, SeaMonkey 1.1.7 or Minefield
On 23/01/2008, Anne van Kesteren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:55:27 +0100, David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
img src=foo.svg is just what I was hoping for, thank you :-) Doesn't
yet seem to work in Safari 3.0.4, SeaMonkey 1.1.7 or Minefield
(Firefox 3 nightly
On 23/01/2008, David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Works somewhat in SeaMonkey (gives default specified rendering size of
image in a small object box with scroll bars) and Safari (gives
default size in small box with no scroll bars, i.e. top left corner
only) and best in Minefield (scales
On 23/01/2008, Charles McCathieNevile [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
An image is not a replacement for text in the real world, only in Ian's
current drafts. And where it is, SVG is ideal for having beautifully
styled selectable interactive text that is lightweight and easy to create
(or heavyweight
On 23/01/2008, timeless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Every browser (except IE) *has* SVG rendering.
That's not true. MicroB as shipped w/ OS 2008 on the N810 (and in OS
Sorry, you're right. I was thinking only of the desktop. Bad move.
Firefox 3 will have *accurate* SVG rendering.
who's
On 24/01/2008, Krzysztof Żelechowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hereby grant you the right to use in-line SVG
provided the only element used inside is solid filled path.
(No gradients, transformations, mitres, text and such).
I remember using VML in this spirit myself.
Thanks for the
-- Forwarded message --
From: Glyn Wintle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 25 Jan 2008 01:15
Subject: [ORG-discuss] BBC video codec to become an international standard
To: Open Rights Group open discussion list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
First linked to by groklaw
On 07/02/2008, Hallvord R M Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That is of course a possibility. I don't have Firefox 3 handy so I'd
appreciate somebody explaining how it is implemented there.
By the way, I recommend Minefield (the Firefox 3 nightlies) to anyone.
I now use it as my default browser
On 03/03/2008, Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, 3 Mar 2008, Krzysztof Żelechowski wrote:
When I want to define a paragraph-style tool-tip, I am left with the
following choice: either make the source code unreadable by making an
excessively long line (this is also true for
On 05/03/2008, Greg Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I really didn't mean to shift the emphasis to SVG at all. I don't
think anyone is going to try running a Gaussian blur of a
dynamically generated mouse-driven turbulence displacement of a bitmap
[via] JavaScript on a canvas image.
On 01/04/2008, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 18:08:20 +0200, Maciej Stachowiak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Just my 2 cents for what they are worth. Also - it is very possible that
I don't understand, if so could you expand?
Taking into account the very
On 01/04/2008, Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Robert J Crisler wrote:
From my perspective, and for what it's worth, I doubt that
the ideals of the W3C as expressed in 3.12.7.1 http://3.12.7.1 would
result in a situation that would be superior to simply letting the
On 07/04/2008, Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And just to repeat the facts as I understand them:
- video will universally support a base video/audio format (linear media
format) defined by the final HTML 5 specification, assuming a suitable
combination of container and bitstream formats
On 16/04/2008, Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've been looking through the HTML5 working draft and I've been trying to
find a reference for the use of the current PICS labels.
I may have missed it, but does anyone, anywhere, actually use PICS? I
don't think I've even heard the name uttered
to list as well
-- Forwarded message --
From: David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2008/4/24
Subject: Re: [whatwg] Expanding datetime
To: WeBMartians [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2008/4/24 WeBMartians [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Whether or not providing a means to specify dates before
2008/5/13 Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
MHTML with a gzip transfer encoding seems like it would do this pretty
nicely already, no?
Indeed, this would belong in another specification.
Yeah, sounds like something for the HTTP layer - what the user-agent
will accept.
- d.
Realistically, are people ever going to stop using a href= in the
next twenty years? Even if it's marked deprecated?
- d.
[just to whatwg]
2008/6/1 Henri Sivonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Philip Taylor made a test case:
http://philip.html5.org/demos/charset/ebcdic/charsets.html
It shows that browsers that use general-purpose decoder libraries (IE and
Safari) support some EBCDIC flavors but browsers that roll their own
The current version of Minefield (the pre-3.1 nightlies) has Ogg
Vorbis and Ogg Theora support.
You can try these out using Wikimedia Commons video:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Video
The current MediaWiki video code defaults to everything else first,
but load the video then
2008/7/31 Maik Merten [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
David Gerard schrieb:
I'm sure Apple and Nokia can join the party at their leisure.
I assume the latest move by Mozilla (which I think is great, obviously)
won't do anything to address the IP concerns of mentioned players.
The IP concerns
2008/7/31 Maik Merten [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
David Gerard schrieb:
The IP concerns are blatant FUD and it's ridiculous to describe them
in any other terms.
While I do agree that the IP concerns may actually be blown out of
proportion (after all the current state of being in a limbo, leaving
(to list as well)
-- Forwarded message --
From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com
Date: 2009/2/11
Subject: Re: [whatwg] [html5] Semantic elements and spec complexity
To: Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch
2009/2/10 Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Matthew Thomas wrote:
1
2009/2/11 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
So the tricky one is to write a language definition that does
something meaningful with tag soup. Because tag soup is what human
languages are too, and they're learned in a similar fashion (try stuff
and see if it works).
Oh - and the way MediaWiki
2009/2/11 Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, David Gerard wrote:
Think of tag-soupness as a feature, not a bug. Shudder in horror at what
this implies.
I don't think that's a particularly controversial position here. People in
other mailing lists involved in the development
http://research.zscaler.com/2009/02/practical-example-of-cssqli-using.html
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/19/2055210
- d.
H.264 was advocated here for the video element as higher quality
than competing codecs such as Theora could ever manage.
The Thusnelda coder is outdoing H.,264 in current tests:
http://web.mit.edu/xiphmont/Public/theora/demo7.html
This is of course developmental work. I'm sure the advocates of
2009/5/31 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com:
The next question is why not just wait until the complete MPEG-1 can be
decoded? If there is still no decision on a suitable codec for HTML5 when
MPEG-1 becomes royalty free and MPEG-1 decoding starts showing up in things
like gstreamer's good set of
2009/6/7 Daniel Berlin dan...@google.com:
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Håkon Wium Liehowc...@opera.com wrote:
I do appreciate your willingness not discuss these matters, though.
Thanks.
As I said, it's clear we won't convince everyone,
I question the relevance to HTML5 of someone from a
2009/6/7 King InuYasha ngomp...@gmail.com:
And where the heck would reluctant to learn come from? This isn't a
programming language, it is a codec! All they have to do is change the
selection of codecs on the output of their video.
As for not knowing it, there is already some publicity on Ogg
2009/6/7 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com:
There are concerns or issues with all of these:
a) a number of large companies are concerned about the possible
unintended entanglements of the open-source codecs; a 'deep pockets'
company deploying them may be subject to risk here. Google and other
2009/6/7 Geoffrey Sneddon foolist...@googlemail.com:
How is it incredible? Who has looked at the submarine patents? They by
definition are unpublished! Yes, certainly, published patents are well
researched, but this is not the objection that anyone has made to it.
It is not credible to claim
2009/6/7 jjcogliati-wha...@yahoo.com:
I have looked for evidence of that there has been any patent research on
the Ogg codecs. I assume that Google, Redhat and others have at least
done some research, but I have yet to find any public research
information. I probably am just missing the
2009/6/3 Bruce D'Arcus bdar...@gmail.com:
Newspaper articles are cited a LOT; they're all over the place on
wikipedia. And this doesn't even get into patents, or hearing
transcripts, or legal opinions, or films. We need to be able to
represent all of these, and bibtex is of little help here.
2009/6/13 Mike Shaver mike.sha...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Chris DiBonacdib...@gmail.com wrote:
No, but it is what I worry about. How agressive will mpeg.la be in
their interpretation of the direction that theora is going? I don't
think that is a reason to stop the current
2009/6/14 Chris DiBona cdib...@gmail.com:
I'll pass this on, it's a good post. Have you considered other kinds
of video tests as well? (something cell shaded, more movement/action,
etc...) as it stands, it's useful, with more examples, it might be
more convincing as an argument for Theora.
(please excuse the faint odour of dead horse around this subject)
http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~nick/theora-soccer/
The test files are actually from xiph.org, which strikes me as less
than ideal even if they're entirely fair.
- d.
2009/6/30 Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org:
If we are going to allow individual vendors to exert veto power, at least
lets make them accountable. Let's require them to make public statements
with justifications instead of passing secret notes to Hixie.
+1
Particularly when (e.g.
2009/7/1 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com:
all of Google to suddenly release all of its information that has legitimate
business reasons for staying company-internal. We've made what statements we
can make, and I don't honestly think it reasonable to expect more.
I think it is
2009/7/6 Jim Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com:
As of 2009, there is no single efficient codec which works on all
modern browsers. Content producers are encouraged to supply the video
in both Theora and H.264 formats, as per the following example
A spec that makes an encumbered format a SHOULD is
[to list as well, oops]
-- Forwarded message --
From: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com
Date: 2009/7/6
Subject: Re: [whatwg] Chipset support is a good argument
To: Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch
2009/7/6 Ian Hickson i...@hixie.ch:
Given the volume of support Theora has gotten without
(this is not quite about the standard itself, but it is about how to
use shiny new bits of it in real world practice)
Wikimedia is preparing to use video (and quite likely HTML5 all
through) for serving up Ogg Theora video in MediaWiki.
Desktop is easy:
* In the one released browser that
2009/7/9 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
* Everyone else gets the Cortado player (written in Java), with a link
suggesting FF 3.5 for a better video experience.
I should note, by the way, that this isn't a great option - second and
subsequent videos in Cortado are just fine, but the thirty
2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu:
It seems you're rightish. Google, as usual, is having lots of fun with
their stable/beta/release distinctions. See if you can decipher
http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/ .
At any rate, video is not supported in Chrome Stable,
2009/7/9 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu:
David Gerard wrote:
* In the one released browser that supports video and Theora,
Firefox 3.5, this will Just Work.
Two! Firefox and Chrome.
Really? I thought that was next Chrome, not this Chrome.
What's ETA on the next Chrome
2009/7/9 Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ) ife...@google.com:
As Peter said, please don't just block Chrome flat out -- if you must, just
block Chrome under version 3. Note that when we push 3 to stable, everyone
will be automatically updated.
As version 3 is easily detectable, presumably we'd just
2009/7/13 Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 10:00 AM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org
wrote:
It's not hard to implement this right, these issues reflect sloppy
development more than a fundamental problem IMHO.
That sounded mean, I apologize. What I want
2009/7/13 Jeff Walden jwalden+wha...@mit.edu:
On 12.7.09 23:20, Ian Hickson wrote:
If people really want to push
Apple into supporting Theora, the best way to do it would be to just keep
using it as if it was the common codec, and _not_ provide another fallback
forvideo-supporting UAs --
2009/7/16 Adam Shannon ashannon1...@gmail.com:
It has been tried but Apple will not implement it due to hardware
limitations.
Hardware limitations or patent limitations? Either seems ill-matched
to evidence-based reasoning.
What was Apple's issue with Vorbis audio? I'd like to hear from
2009/7/16 Remco remc...@gmail.com:
Cowon/iAudio, iRiver, LG, Samsung, SanDisk, Creative, Google. Those
are a few of the companies that support Vorbis:
http://wiki.xiph.org/PortablePlayers
Also everything using the Actions S1 MP3 chipset - almost *all*
Chinese MP3/MP4 players.
Basically,
2009/7/16 Keryx Web webmas...@keryx.se:
Of course Apple and microsoft, both being hellbent upon using
proprietary technologies and taking every single opportunity they have
to leverage any monopoly they have attained[1] will object to Vorbis.
Now, now. Let's assume good faith.
I will assume
2009/7/17 timeless timel...@gmail.com:
I believe, but can not speak for Nokia, that Nokia would not implement
it. As to the why, it's something beyond my abilities to understand,
and it's certainly beyond my paygrade to explain.
But not entirely unlinked to Nokia being a beneficiary of the
2009/8/11 Nils Dagsson Moskopp nils-dagsson-mosk...@dieweltistgarnichtso.net:
Am Dienstag, den 11.08.2009, 00:44 +0100 schrieb Sam Kuper:
In recent news, Google may be about to open source On2 codecs, perhaps
creating a route out of the HTML 5 video codec deadlock:
2009/8/23 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.com:
Or just don't ban anything
at all, like with type=tel. type=email differs from most of the other
types with validity constraints (like month, number, etc.) in that the
difference between valid and invalid values is a purely pragmatic
... or as unbiased as you're likely to get, anyway, from a top 10
website of very mainstream interest whose direct interest is serving
the readers:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm
http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm
The
2009/11/8 Aryeh Gregor simetrical+...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:54 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
... or as unbiased as you're likely to get, anyway, from a top 10
website of very mainstream interest whose direct interest is serving
the readers:
http
Now, this is interesting. A bit of a dancing bear (i.e. not quite as
good as Gnash) ... but he's achieved Flash on the iPhone to some
degree!
Code: http://github.com/tobeytailor/gordon/
Demos: http://paulirish.com/work/gordon/demos/
iPhone screenshot: http://twitpic.com/xxmi2
Browser support
http://www.atoker.com/blog/2010/02/04/html5-theora-video-codec-for-silverlight/
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/02/nuanti-brings-html5-and-ogg-theora-video-to-silverlight.ars
The 40% is from the blog post at the top.
- d.
On 7 February 2010 02:12, Kornel Lesinski kor...@geekhood.net wrote:
There's also Cortado Theora player which can work for those who don't have
Silverlight, but have Java.
I've tested it - it's good enough for small videos (too slow for HD
unfortunately) and can be used to implement basic
2010/3/28 Remco remc...@gmail.com:
This is what I don't understand either. It's not like H.264 won't be
successful if another baseline format is specified in the
recommendation. So, all this PR about submarine patents to scare
people away from unencumbered formats is not necessary.
On 28 March 2010 21:11, Kelly Clowers kelly.clow...@gmail.com wrote:
For Theora. They haven't really said much about Vorbis AFAIK. And I think an
audio codec is less likely to have patent issues than a video codec
(especially
since Vorbis has a lot of high profile use that should have drawn
On 29 March 2010 09:41, Kit Grose k...@iqmultimedia.com.au wrote:
Apple is at heart a hardware company. My understanding of their objections to
OGG have been also largely due to a lack of hardware decoder support in their
iPods/iPhones.
No, they claimed submarine patents as their actual
On 31 March 2010 02:07, Richard Watts r...@kynesim.co.uk wrote:
Given what I've seen of the utter incomprehension the computing
strategy people in general have of video, I suspect the actual reason
for resistance is some form of pure political idiocy centering on the
mobile companies
My statement was completely wrong. Nokia isn't in the H.264 pool.
Here's the full list (PDF linked from this page):
http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/PatentList.aspx
My sincere apologies to Nokia for this claim.
- d.
On 31 March 2010 08:48, Aaron Franco aa...@ngrinder.com wrote:
On 29 March 2010 00:03, Silvia Pfeiffer silviapfeiff...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 7:14 AM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
The catch with Vorbis is that if you support it, whoever owns the MP3
patents charges you a lot more.
(That's why I have an MP3 player that does Ogg
On 20 May 2010 00:34, Nils Dagsson Moskopp
nils-dagsson-mosk...@dieweltistgarnichtso.net wrote:
James Salsman jsals...@talknicer.com schrieb am Wed, 19 May 2010
14:58:38 -0700:
Container will be .webm, a modified version of Matroshka. Audio is
Ogg Vorbis.
You mean Vorbis. /pedantic ;)
On 20 May 2010 00:38, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
x264 don't think much of VP8, they think it's just not ready:
http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377
OTOH, that may not end up mattering.
Greg Maxwell thinks it's only about as much of a car crash as VP3 was
when it was released:
http
2010/5/20 Peter Beverloo pe...@lvp-media.com:
Microsoft has announced playback support for VP8 in Internet Explorer 9[1]
under the condition that one has to install a VP8 codec manually, albeit via
inclusion in another program: In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support
playback of H.264 video as
On 20 May 2010 11:03, Philip Jägenstedt phil...@opera.com wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 17:55:42 +0800, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't. They're trying to make if you install it yourself, it'll
work look like they're actually doing anything at all. But they're
not, because the same
On 4 July 2010 13:57, bjartur svartma...@gmail.com wrote:
I fail to see how BBC would be harmed by the usage of alternative
software. Its business model is about content, not software, right?
See, you're using logic and sense ... about half the BBC want to just
*make their stuff available*,
On 5 July 2010 07:51, Mikko Rantalainen mikko.rantalai...@peda.net wrote:
So, you're arguing that DRM is not required, right?
I'm arguing that it can't possibly make sense. And that standardising
a DRM is not something anyone sensible should touch.
Especially, the content distributors
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