Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Steven Walling
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Alan Liefting alieft...@ihug.co.nz wrote: Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related matters regardless of how minor they are? Could it be that WP is a reflection

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Carcharoth
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: Research on the amount of bytes added to different namespaces suggests it is true that the project namespace is stagnant.[1] The largest period of growth in the bytes added to the project namespace began roughly in

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.comwrote: Doesn't this approach assume that people all interact with Wikipedia in the same way? Many people only participate in a vanishingly small part of Wikipedia and you can have some areas that are deserted and others

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Fred Bauder
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Alan Liefting alieft...@ihug.co.nz wrote: Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related matters regardless of how minor they are? Could it be that WP is a reflection

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Ian Woollard
On 19 September 2011 18:38, Steven Walling steven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: Research on the amount of bytes added to different namespaces suggests it is true that the project namespace is stagnant.[1] The largest period of growth in the bytes added to the project namespace began roughly in

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Fred Bauder fredb...@fairpoint.netwrote: Sounds like an interesting project which might answer a few perennial questions such as to what extent Larry Sanger shaped basic Wikipedia policies. However, please keep in mind that this mailing list and the

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Ray Saintonge
On 09/19/11 12:03 PM, Ian Woollard wrote: On 19 September 2011 18:38, Steven Wallingsteven.wall...@gmail.com wrote: Research on the amount of bytes added to different namespaces suggests it is true that the project namespace is stagnant.[1] The largest period of growth in the bytes added to

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Ray Saintonge
On 09/19/11 12:19 PM, Steven Walling wrote: On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Fred Bauderfredb...@fairpoint.netwrote: Sounds like an interesting project which might answer a few perennial questions such as to what extent Larry Sanger shaped basic Wikipedia policies. However, please keep in

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Ray Saintonge
On 09/19/11 11:35 AM, Carcharoth wrote: Doesn't this approach assume that people all interact with Wikipedia in the same way? Many people only participate in a vanishingly small part of Wikipedia and you can have some areas that are deserted and others that are very active. This isn't found by

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-19 Thread Steven Walling
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote: NS5 is another cryptic acronym. Ec Sorry if that was cryptic. NS5 = namespace five = Project talk. Steven ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-18 Thread Ray Saintonge
On 09/17/11 6:04 PM, MuZemike wrote: I think that certainly does happen, mainly because some don't like change. Many RfCs and proposals contain oppose reasons such as solution in search of a problem or If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Other than what Alan mentioned, this has also applied to

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-18 Thread Stephen Bain
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 11:04 AM, MuZemike muzem...@gmail.com wrote: Other proposals get so bogged down in endless stalemate and filibustering (like with Pending Changes), nothing ever gets done or moves forward. That's where the consensus-based model fails miserably. Consensus is in a

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-18 Thread Fred Bauder
People should [stop] making negative insinuations about the majority or claims of mythical idiots that oppose nearly any sensible idea. Perhaps if you have proposed or supported a change that has not been implemented it was just a poor idea. Yes, we should assume good faith. Fred

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-18 Thread WereSpielChequers
Yes the pedia is somewhat ossified and change in many areas is difficult to achieve. You only have to look at the various attempts to reform RFA to see that. Of course there are many possible changes that fail because they only have minority support, and while it might be frustrating for the

[WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-17 Thread Alan Liefting
Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related matters regardless of how minor they are? Could it be that WP is a reflection of human behaviour and has become a talkfest where nothing changes because of

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-17 Thread Fred Bauder
Is it just me or do others find it difficult to instigate any sort of changes to policies, guidelines, layout, Manual of Style and related matters regardless of how minor they are? Could it be that WP is a reflection of human behaviour and has become a talkfest where nothing changes because

Re: [WikiEN-l] Difficulty making structural changes to WP due to human nature?

2011-09-17 Thread MuZemike
I think that certainly does happen, mainly because some don't like change. Many RfCs and proposals contain oppose reasons such as solution in search of a problem or If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Other than what Alan mentioned, this has also applied to any technical changes to the system.