On Mar 27, 2009, at 11:25 AM, doc wrote:
You'll get more articles in Encarta or Britanicca - and they WILL have
all the core ones, rather than a selection of what's been OK on
wikipedia. Why would anyone want to use the schools' wikipedia?
Because they want their 9-year-old to use a free
doc wrote:
So, replace all such specialist elected and accountable bodies (or
bodies accountable to the elected) with a wiki? Replace the expert, who
wrote the textbook, with the anarchy of the truth according to whoever
made the last edit?
I think I'll stay off the koolaid and stick
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote:
Nationalism is a major factor in school social studies curricula, and a
great medium for indoctrinating the child with official truth. Access to
Wikipedia and other on-line sources helps him to formulate the
questions
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Charlotte Webb
charlottethew...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Ray Saintonge sainto...@telus.net wrote:
Nationalism is a major factor in school social studies curricula, and a
great medium for indoctrinating the child with official truth.
Carcharoth wrote:
[Correcting previous post - can't Wikipedia have editable posts?]
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Carcharoth
carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Charlotte Webb
charlottethew...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Ray
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 1:32 PM, doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote:
Carcharoth wrote:
[Correcting previous post - can't Wikipedia have editable posts?]
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Carcharoth
carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Charlotte Webb
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 7:32 AM, doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote:
I think I'll stay off the koolaid and stick with democracy,
professionalism, and expertise - yes it can be, on some occasions,
stupid, biased and myopic, but it is still the best system we've got.
Well, I know everyone's
2009/3/28 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com:
Doesn't that make the board of education part of the problem?
So, replace all such specialist elected and accountable bodies (or
bodies accountable to the elected) with a wiki?
Not sure such bodies are accountable (at least not in the UK).
2009/3/28 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
2009/3/28 Carcharoth carcharot...@googlemail.com:
Not sure such bodies are accountable (at least not in the UK).
Definitely not elected in the UK.
The UK National Curriculum is determined by parliament, I believe -
definitely an elected body.
You're being hyperbolic. That isn't a good way to counter an argument.
In a message dated 3/28/2009 6:33:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com writes:
Replace the expert, who
wrote the textbook, with the anarchy of the truth according to whoever
made the last
I like that. I wonder if there is a bot that automagically adds an
unsourced tag to any article with zero or one source?
That would actually be a USEFUL bot.
I can't believe I just said that.
Will
In a message dated 3/28/2009 7:11:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Oh, and by pending I meant unless events X or Y occur ... :-)
—Thomas Larsen
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2009/3/27 Thomas Larsen larsen.thoma...@gmail.com:
Admittedly, I haven't perused the entire article very thoroughly.
However, I am /very/ skeptical about teaching primary school pupils
how to blog at all, and I am strongly opposed to Wikipedia and Twitter
taking the place of history in
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Thomas Larsen
larsen.thoma...@gmail.com wrote:
Admittedly, I haven't perused the entire article very thoroughly.
However, I am /very/ skeptical about teaching primary school pupils
how to blog at all, and I am strongly opposed to Wikipedia and Twitter
taking
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Sam Korn smo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Thomas Larsen
larsen.thoma...@gmail.com wrote:
Admittedly, I haven't perused the entire article very thoroughly.
However, I am /very/ skeptical about teaching primary school pupils
how to blog
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Michael Bimmler mbimm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Sam Korn smo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Thomas Larsen
larsen.thoma...@gmail.com wrote:
Admittedly, I haven't perused the entire article very thoroughly.
@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 4:22:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Wikipedia isn't just a good idea - it's compulsory
2009/3/27 Thomas Larsen larsen.thoma...@gmail.com:
Admittedly, I haven't perused the entire article very thoroughly.
However, I am /very/ skeptical about teaching primary
Durova's evil guide to plagiarism:
Don't copy from the live version of the article. Copy a historic version
from a year ago. Your teacher doesn't understand how Wikipedia page
histories work and won't find the text on a Google search. The older
version will appear more primitive and more
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com wrote:
Durova's evil guide to plagiarism:
Don't copy from the live version of the article. Copy a historic version
from a year ago. Your teacher doesn't understand how Wikipedia page
histories work and won't find the text on
Durova wrote:
The scary thing is that would probably work.
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Al Tally majorly.w...@googlemail.comwrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com wrote:
Durova's evil guide to plagiarism:
Don't copy from the live version of the
Noah Salzman wrote:
On Mar 27, 2009, at 11:14 AM, doc wrote:
More seriously, I have primary age school-kids, and I would not allow
them to read nevermind edit wikipedia. I can't be alone in that.
When my
daughter showed an interest, I went out and bought Encarta and
Britannica - which
Durova wrote:
Durova's evil guide to plagiarism:
Don't copy from the live version of the article. Copy a historic version
from a year ago. Your teacher doesn't understand how Wikipedia page
histories work and won't find the text on a Google search. The older
version will appear more
Sam Korn wrote:
Furthermore, there is the potential that teaching students to question
Wikipedia could lead to their being more disposed to question other
sources, which is obviously very useful in the study of any subject
(and supremely history).
Possibly more broadly. I was looking
doc wrote:
More seriously, I have primary age school-kids, and I would not allow
them to read nevermind edit wikipedia. I can't be alone in that. When my
daughter showed an interest, I went out and bought Encarta and
Britannica - which she loves and which are great for school.
My son is now
Ray Saintonge wrote:
My son is now in first year of college, and I tried for years to get him
more involved; I even brought him with me to Alexandria. It hasn't
worked, but I know that he used Wikipedia to help him in his research
for school papers. He has had the good sense to know that
2009/3/27 doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com:
Why I think Sir John is barking up the wrong tree is that children are
quite able to teach themselves to blog and edit a wiki.
Yes. Perhaps we need lessons in how to get the kids *off* Bebo.
- d.
___
Ray Saintonge wrote:
My son is now in first year of college, and I tried for years to get him
more involved; I even brought him with me to Alexandria. It hasn't
worked, but I know that he used Wikipedia to help him in his research
for school papers. He has had the good sense to know that
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote:
The idea of wikipedia anywhere near a school curriculum, except perhaps
in a brief IT lesson, horrifies me. The idea of children using wikipedia
to challenge the official truth of a qualified teacher with but sir,
it says
Sam Korn wrote:
As ever, I'm a little more optimistic than you, Scott. I think there
is a potential use for members of the Wikipedia community to go into
schools and explain how Wikipedia should be used because
1. children /will/ encounter Wikipedia;
2. they need to know how it can be
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote:
snip
The idea of wikipedia anywhere near a school curriculum, except perhaps
in a brief IT lesson, horrifies me. The idea of children using wikipedia
to challenge the official truth of a qualified teacher with but sir,
Carcharoth wrote:
On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com wrote:
snip
The idea of wikipedia anywhere near a school curriculum, except perhaps
in a brief IT lesson, horrifies me. The idea of children using wikipedia
to challenge the official truth of a qualified
2009/3/28 doc doc.wikipe...@ntlworld.com:
Carcharoth wrote:
Presumably, they would actually go: but sir, I read the Wikipedia
article, and while checking the sources provided there, I did some
background reading and research, and the history presented in those
other sources is different to
Thomas Dalton wrote:
Wikipedia is generally better referenced that most primary school
textbooks I've seen. Presumably Wikipedia won't replace textbooks,
children will, instead, be learning from multiple sources and being
taught how to judge their reliability.
Yes, at its best, Wikipedia
I had a hard time learning to eliminate warnings from Grammatik. RTFM. I
ignored the rule on sentence length like I ignore the rule on sentence
fragments, today.
The hardest rule is activation, where you might need to insert pronouns
like:
The donkey was kicked.
Someone kicked the donkey.
I hate this damn machine.
Why don't I sell it.
It does not what I want it to,
but rather what I tell it.
Clicked on play button. Buffer got up to 62%, then stalled and started over
according to the numbers. Pressed the stop button...kept playing a little
bit more, then a little bit more. It
It's not so much American historical illiteracy *per se*, as the tendency of
all countries to teach a superficial and patriotic approach to history until
the university level, where most people don't study it. Arguably, that
habit is at the root of our many nationalist edit disputes: each side
Hi all,
On 3/26/09, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote:
snip
Primary school pupils should learn how to blog and use internet
sites like Twitter and Wikipedia and spend less time studying history,
it is claimed. A review of the primary school curriculum in England
will be published in a
Oh, and just to clarify—by golden meteorites and acts of God, etc. I
meant that pending disastrous events wiping out humanity and thus our
ability to record history, history is certain to exist in 1000 years.
Cheers,
—Thomas Larsen
___
WikiEN-l
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7962912.stm
Primary school pupils should learn how to blog and use internet
sites like Twitter and Wikipedia and spend less time studying history,
it is claimed. A review of the primary school curriculum in England
will be published in a final report next
2009/3/25 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7962912.stm
Primary school pupils should learn how to blog and use internet
sites like Twitter and Wikipedia and spend less time studying history,
it is claimed. A review of the primary school curriculum in
2009/3/25 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
I don't think the IWF will make that mistake again. I never thought
I'd see so many people being so outspokenly against a charity
dedicated to fighting child pornography!
Well, they know we can tell *instantly* when it happens. And they do
In a message dated 3/25/2009 1:34:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,
thomas.dal...@gmail.com writes:
I don't think the IWF will make that mistake again. I never thought
I'd see so many people being so outspokenly against a charity
dedicated to fighting child pornography!
That response misses the
2009/3/25 wjhon...@aol.com:
That response misses the point.
This Charity operates as a black box, not only censoring but refusing to
acknowledge that their acts are hidden, unknowable and possibly arbitrary.
We need this level of censorship? No. What this charity should do, is
operate in
2009/3/25 wjhon...@aol.com:
In a message dated 3/25/2009 1:59:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
thomas.dal...@gmail.com writes:
No, I didn't miss the point. The point is that IWF will not block
access to Wikipedia again,
You were defending an organization that operates censorship police in a
In a message dated 3/25/2009 3:02:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geni...@gmail.com writes:
Err no we are looking to create an encyclopedia. Government
surveillance is a separate issue.
You are assuming that we means the project.
I used we to mean all right thinking people.
Will
Getting back to the original post.
How's Wikipedia's coverage of history, compared to the average British
school textbook?
-Durova
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 4:08 PM, wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/25/2009 3:02:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
geni...@gmail.com writes:
Err no we
In a message dated 3/25/2009 3:09:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com writes:
How's Wikipedia's coverage of history, compared to the average British
school textbook?
It's certainly more in-depth in certain areas. What modern textbook will
mention three children of Henry
2009/3/25 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com:
Getting back to the original post.
How's Wikipedia's coverage of history, compared to the average British
school textbook?
-Durova
Probably more comprehensive in that no one has yet worked out how to
make a text book 30 foot thick. On the other
geni wrote:
2009/3/25 Durova nadezhda.dur...@gmail.com:
Getting back to the original post.
How's Wikipedia's coverage of history, compared to the average
British school textbook?
-Durova
Probably more comprehensive in that no one has yet worked out how to
make a text book 30 foot thick.
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
I don't see much of a problem with this, as a comparison implies some sort
of value-judgement.
UK primary school history does tend to focus on people a lot, rather
than details of historical events.
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
Not so much that the whole encyclopedia was blocked, more that the
collateral effect as a result of blocking vandalism was that a bottleneck
handful of re-routed proxy IP addresses was blocked; however, there was no
block on the image page
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
I don't see much of a problem with this, as a comparison implies
some sort of value-judgement.
UK primary school history does tend to focus on people a lot, rather
than details of historical events.
Probably more recent
David Gerard wrote:
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
Not so much that the whole encyclopedia was blocked, more that the
collateral effect as a result of blocking vandalism was that a
bottleneck handful of re-routed proxy IP addresses was blocked;
however, there was no block
This discussion of World War I social issues is irresistible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh!_How_I_Hate_to_Get_Up_in_the_Morning
-Durova
P.S. Shameless plug for an article I wrote. The audio file is a featured
sound.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Thomas Dalton
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
Thomas Dalton wrote:
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
I don't see much of a problem with this, as a comparison implies
some sort of value-judgement.
UK primary school history does tend to focus on people a
Durova wrote:
This discussion of World War I social issues is irresistible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh!_How_I_Hate_to_Get_Up_in_the_Morning
-Durova
P.S. Shameless plug for an article I wrote. The audio file is a
featured sound.
Actually, Lise, as an owl rather than a lark, I'm
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/3/25 Phil Nash pn007a2...@blueyonder.co.uk:
I don't see much of a problem with this, as a comparison implies some sort
of value-judgement.
UK primary school history does tend to focus on people a lot, rather
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