Re: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steven Faulkner

Firevox also implemts much of WAI-ARIA, so it is useful for testing
and demos of ARIA functionality.



On 05/12/2007, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles
 Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as
 full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the
 impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had
 pretty much abandoned it in order to work on more interesting stuff. I see
 it is now up to version 3.4 so it will be interesting to see how it has
 progressed.

 It was certainly usable, but it bears no comparison with a professional
 screen reader like JAWS, which is a far superior product. OK, it should be
 for $1500 but people should not think that they're getting a $1500 product
 for free when they install FireVox. It's more akin to products in the $200
 price bracket.

 One example of the difference is in forms where label elements have not
 been used, and let's face it, that's 99% of all forms. JAWS applies
 heuristics to identify the text that is most likely to be the label, and
 associates it with the form control as if a label element had been used. 9
 times out of 10 it gets it right. FireVox does not do this.

 Steve



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Nick Lo
 Sent: 05 December 2007 04:25
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for
 Firefox)

 I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially useful
 extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:

 Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform Firefox into
 a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual impairments -- and
 anyone else who can use a speech interface to the Web. Fire Vox is designed
 to be a full-fledged screen reader in a browser, usable for daily browsing
 even for unsighted users. CLiCk, Speak provides point-and-click screen
 reading, which can be helpful for partially-sighted users or sighted users
 who have written language difficulties (such as dyslexia).

 http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

 Nick


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-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html


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Re: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steven Faulkner
Firevox also implemts much of WAI-ARIA, so it is useful for testing
and demos of ARIA functionality.



On 05/12/2007, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles
 Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as
 full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the
 impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had
 pretty much abandoned it in order to work on more interesting stuff. I see
 it is now up to version 3.4 so it will be interesting to see how it has
 progressed.

 It was certainly usable, but it bears no comparison with a professional
 screen reader like JAWS, which is a far superior product. OK, it should be
 for $1500 but people should not think that they're getting a $1500 product
 for free when they install FireVox. It's more akin to products in the $200
 price bracket.

 One example of the difference is in forms where label elements have not
 been used, and let's face it, that's 99% of all forms. JAWS applies
 heuristics to identify the text that is most likely to be the label, and
 associates it with the form control as if a label element had been used. 9
 times out of 10 it gets it right. FireVox does not do this.

 Steve



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Nick Lo
 Sent: 05 December 2007 04:25
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for
 Firefox)

 I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially useful
 extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:

 Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform Firefox into
 a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual impairments -- and
 anyone else who can use a speech interface to the Web. Fire Vox is designed
 to be a full-fledged screen reader in a browser, usable for daily browsing
 even for unsighted users. CLiCk, Speak provides point-and-click screen
 reading, which can be helpful for partially-sighted users or sighted users
 who have written language difficulties (such as dyslexia).

 http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

 Nick


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-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html


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RE: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steve Green

A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles
Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as
full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the
impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had
pretty much abandoned it in order to work on more interesting stuff. I see
it is now up to version 3.4 so it will be interesting to see how it has
progressed.

It was certainly usable, but it bears no comparison with a professional
screen reader like JAWS, which is a far superior product. OK, it should be
for $1500 but people should not think that they're getting a $1500 product
for free when they install FireVox. It's more akin to products in the $200
price bracket.

One example of the difference is in forms where label elements have not
been used, and let's face it, that's 99% of all forms. JAWS applies
heuristics to identify the text that is most likely to be the label, and
associates it with the form control as if a label element had been used. 9
times out of 10 it gets it right. FireVox does not do this.

Steve

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Lo
Sent: 05 December 2007 04:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for
Firefox)

I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially useful
extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:

Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform Firefox into
a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual impairments -- and
anyone else who can use a speech interface to the Web. Fire Vox is designed
to be a full-fledged screen reader in a browser, usable for daily browsing
even for unsighted users. CLiCk, Speak provides point-and-click screen
reading, which can be helpful for partially-sighted users or sighted users
who have written language difficulties (such as dyslexia).

http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

Nick


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RE: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Steve Green
A year ago I started to evaluate FireVox 2.6 and had a dialog with Charles
Chen, its creator. At that time there is no way I would describe it as
full-fledged screen reader as it had many shortcomings. I got the
impression it was really just a hobby project, and Charles said he had
pretty much abandoned it in order to work on more interesting stuff. I see
it is now up to version 3.4 so it will be interesting to see how it has
progressed.

It was certainly usable, but it bears no comparison with a professional
screen reader like JAWS, which is a far superior product. OK, it should be
for $1500 but people should not think that they're getting a $1500 product
for free when they install FireVox. It's more akin to products in the $200
price bracket.

One example of the difference is in forms where label elements have not
been used, and let's face it, that's 99% of all forms. JAWS applies
heuristics to identify the text that is most likely to be the label, and
associates it with the form control as if a label element had been used. 9
times out of 10 it gets it right. FireVox does not do this.

Steve

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Lo
Sent: 05 December 2007 04:25
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for
Firefox)

I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially useful
extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:

Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform Firefox into
a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual impairments -- and
anyone else who can use a speech interface to the Web. Fire Vox is designed
to be a full-fledged screen reader in a browser, usable for daily browsing
even for unsighted users. CLiCk, Speak provides point-and-click screen
reading, which can be helpful for partially-sighted users or sighted users
who have written language difficulties (such as dyslexia).

http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

Nick


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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Max A. Shpack
form elements have focus() method in javascript. plain html doesn't allow this.

Cheers,
Max.

2007/12/5, Minh D. Tran [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Everyone,

 I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to default
 on a certain form input field?

 Thanks,
 M




  
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Matthew Pennell
On 12/5/07, Minh D. Tran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to default
 on a certain form input field?


Do you mean you want to automatically give focus to a particular form field
when the page loads? You can simply call the .focus() method on the element:

document.getElementById('myfield').focus();

Consider the accessibility implications, first, though; not everyone will be
happy to have decisions made for them about where they want their cursor to
be. ;)

- Matthew.


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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread marjori . blaske
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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread marjori . blaske

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread marjori . blaske

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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Charlesthomas Eaton


By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to  
right. All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them  
to have focus.

-chuck
=
On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Minh D. Tran wrote:


Hi Everyone,

I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to  
default on a certain form input field?


Thanks,
M




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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread chris . block
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Michael Horowitz
tabindex determines the order in which people tab through a form.  I 
would prefer this to using javascript because it avoids problems with 
browsers that don't recognize the javascript.


http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.11

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Charlesthomas Eaton wrote:
By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to 
right. All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them 
to have focus.

-chuck
=
On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Minh D. Tran wrote:


Hi Everyone,

I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to 
default on a certain form input field?


Thanks,
M




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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread marjori . blaske
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Alastair Campbell

Michael Horowitz wrote:
 tabindex determines the order in which people tab through a form.

The default tabindex simply follows the source order, as mentioned before.

I would recommend not specifying the tabindex unless you are prepared
to spend a lot of time doing everything, as it overrides the default.
For more:
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html#h3-5325
http://www.netmag.co.uk/zine/the-accessibility-test/www-huntforproperty-ie

There are two main methods of going through a page with a screen
reader, with 'next' (arrowing in JAWs) or with the tab, through links
and form controls. When those two don't match, it's pretty confusing.

Kind regards,

-Alastair


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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Alastair Campbell
Michael Horowitz wrote:
 tabindex determines the order in which people tab through a form.

The default tabindex simply follows the source order, as mentioned before.

I would recommend not specifying the tabindex unless you are prepared
to spend a lot of time doing everything, as it overrides the default.
For more:
http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/Chapter08.html#h3-5325
http://www.netmag.co.uk/zine/the-accessibility-test/www-huntforproperty-ie

There are two main methods of going through a page with a screen
reader, with 'next' (arrowing in JAWs) or with the tab, through links
and form controls. When those two don't match, it's pretty confusing.

Kind regards,

-Alastair


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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread chris . block

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread chris . block
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Michael Horowitz


tabindex determines the order in which people tab through a form.  I 
would prefer this to using javascript because it avoids problems with 
browsers that don't recognize the javascript.


http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#h-17.11

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Charlesthomas Eaton wrote:
By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to 
right. All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them 
to have focus.

-chuck
=
On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Minh D. Tran wrote:


Hi Everyone,

I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to 
default on a certain form input field?


Thanks,
M




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RE: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread James Leslie
 
That is not really true. Form fields take focus from the order they are
in the code. They can be positioned anywhere on the screen using CSS.
Without intervention they will follow this order regardless of top,
bottom, left or right on the screen.

'Lining them up' would (hopefully) be done with CSS but will not affect
the document flow.

James

--
By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to right.
All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them to have
focus.
-chuck



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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread Paul Hanson
Matthew,

I don't have a field name. I only have one field on my HTML pages, which is the 
search box. This is my Form:
|
  form method=get action=# onsubmit=highlight(this.highl.value);return 
false
input type=text id=highl /
input type=submit value=Search this Page /br /
/form
|
How do I make the cursor default to the search box? Where would I put the 
document.getElementById('myfield').focus(); line in my HTML code? Can I add it 
to this code:
|
body onLoad=beginSearch ()
|
Help?


Paul Hanson
Technical Writer
RoboHelp ACE - http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/robohelp.html
Quintrex Data Systems http://www.quintrex.comhttp://www.quintrex.com/
email: phanson at quintrex.com




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Pennell


Do you mean you want to automatically give focus to a particular form field 
when the page loads? You can simply call the .focus() method on the element:

document.getElementById('myfield').focus();

Consider the accessibility implications, first, though; not everyone will be 
happy to have decisions made for them about where they want their cursor to be. 
;)

- Matthew.


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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread Paul Hanson
Matthew,

I don't have a field name. I only have one field on my HTML pages, which is the 
search box. This is my Form:
|
  form method=get action=# onsubmit=highlight(this.highl.value);return 
false
input type=text id=highl /
input type=submit value=Search this Page /br /
/form
|
How do I make the cursor default to the search box? Where would I put the 
document.getElementById('myfield').focus(); line in my HTML code? Can I add it 
to this code:
|
body onLoad=beginSearch ()
|
Help?


Paul Hanson
Technical Writer
RoboHelp ACE - http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/robohelp.html
Quintrex Data Systems http://www.quintrex.comhttp://www.quintrex.com/
email: phanson at quintrex.com




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Pennell


Do you mean you want to automatically give focus to a particular form field 
when the page loads? You can simply call the .focus() method on the element:

document.getElementById('myfield').focus();

Consider the accessibility implications, first, though; not everyone will be 
happy to have decisions made for them about where they want their cursor to be. 
;)

- Matthew.


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RE: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread James Leslie
That is not really true. Form fields take focus from the order they are
in the code. They can be positioned anywhere on the screen using CSS.
Without intervention they will follow this order regardless of top,
bottom, left or right on the screen.

'Lining them up' would (hopefully) be done with CSS but will not affect
the document flow.

James

--
By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to right.
All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them to have
focus.
-chuck



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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread chris . block

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread lisa . kerrigan
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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread lisa . kerrigan
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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread lisa . kerrigan

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread lisa . kerrigan

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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Max A. Shpack

form elements have focus() method in javascript. plain html doesn't allow this.

Cheers,
Max.

2007/12/5, Minh D. Tran [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi Everyone,

 I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to default
 on a certain form input field?

 Thanks,
 M




  
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Matthew Pennell
On 12/5/07, Minh D. Tran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to default
 on a certain form input field?


Do you mean you want to automatically give focus to a particular form field
when the page loads? You can simply call the .focus() method on the element:

document.getElementById('myfield').focus();

Consider the accessibility implications, first, though; not everyone will be
happy to have decisions made for them about where they want their cursor to
be. ;)

- Matthew.


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[WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Minh D. Tran
Hi Everyone,

I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to default on a 
certain form input field?

Thanks,
M



   
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Re: [WSG] Simple question on forms

2007-12-05 Thread Charlesthomas Eaton
By default, forms fields take focus from the top-down and left to  
right. All you have to do, is line them up in the order you want them  
to have focus.

-chuck
=
On Dec 5, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Minh D. Tran wrote:


Hi Everyone,

I just have a question regarding forms. How do I set the cursor to  
default on a certain form input field?


Thanks,
M




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[WSG] Mail issues

2007-12-05 Thread russ - maxdesign
Hey all,

As you know, we are experiencing some mail issues.

The read receipts issue has been resolved and the offender removed from
the WSG system.

However, the double posts has not yet been resolved. It appears that the
problem is not with the WSG mail server but being caused by someone who is
reposting messages.

Regardless, we are looking into the problem now. Be aware that we may shut
down the mail server for a short time today.

Thanks for your patience!
Russ




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[WSG] Test

2007-12-05 Thread Peter Firminger
Hi,

The duplicate posts are coming from a Globe IT server in the Netherlands.
I have blocked the IP address 217.148.170.240

So we'll see if this message comes back...

Please don't reply to this post.

Peter Firminger



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Re: [WSG] Article: Vocalize Firefox (text-to-speech extensions for Firefox)

2007-12-05 Thread Christian Snodgrass


I haven't tried them before but they sound very interesting. I'll have 
to give them a look.


Nick Lo wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone has tried/tested the following potentially 
useful extensions and if so what their opinion was/is:


Two recently released text-to-speech extensions can transform Firefox 
into a talking Web browser suitable for users with visual impairments 
-- and anyone else who can use a speech interface to the Web. Fire Vox 
is designed to be a full-fledged screen reader in a browser, usable 
for daily browsing even for unsighted users. CLiCk, Speak provides 
point-and-click screen reading, which can be helpful for 
partially-sighted users or sighted users who have written language 
difficulties (such as dyslexia).


http://www.linux.com/feature/122197

Nick


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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net
Phone: 859.816.7955



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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread Stijn Audooren

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread Stijn Audooren

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[WSG] Default Cursor into Search box

2007-12-05 Thread Stijn Audooren


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