On Wed, 7 May 2008 02:35:51 pm Elizabeth Spiegel wrote:
It can be great for getting immediate feedback without reloading a page
e.g. building a customised bag at Timbuk2:
http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/bagbuilder
Elizabeth
Hi
Yes, but that kind of functionality can easily be done
debugging is easier and the license fee is a lot
lower :)
its all to easy to end up a blind alley with flash
also flash often allowed designers to ensure cross platform display
Opera 9.5
looks great - very slick and dragonfly will be amazingly advantageous :)
2008/5/7 James Ellis [EMAIL
some BIG usability NO-NOs I see on a lot of flash sites.
intro pages (one of my pet hates - I HATE waiting ... and I'm sure I'm not
the only one! - they are pointless and should be BANNED! - if you reallly
*must* then make sure there is a non-flash way to skip it)
animations in navigation -
iPhone can do better
does'nt support flash :)
2008/5/7 Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
some BIG usability NO-NOs I see on a lot of flash sites.
intro pages (one of my pet hates - I HATE waiting ... and I'm sure I'm not
the only one! - they are pointless and should be BANNED! - if you
Only resort to flash if what you want is impossible with plain old html and
some javascript thrown in. And if you use flash, make sure there's an
alternative. I think this page:
http://www.schiphol.nl/toekomst/
...is a good example of just that. Just turn off javascript and see what
happens.
On 2008/05/05 23:15 (GMT+0300) Michael Persson apparently typed:
What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full
flash websites??
OK for people whose priorities lie in form rather than substance, but
generally no small impediment for many others. Flash players do not
On May 7, 2008, at 12:03 AM, Susie Gardner-Brown wrote:
people think it doesn’t matter what a site looks like as long as it
is accessible.
Sadly true. But in fact what a site looks like can have a huge
impact on its accessibility. I think that notion stems from a rather
misplaced notion
As i started this thred i will also close it and sum the results.
I find that we, professionals on wen development are mostly
negative to the full flash publishing and also have a attitide
that standards are able to implement.
What do we do when a client wants flash and dont really understand
Michael Persson wrote:
Do we still want the money to produce their website or do we say no
because we are web standard freaks and would never touch such a
bad usability and accessibilty project dirty money hahaha..
Well would we...??
If all they want is eye candy give it to them and take
Michael MD wrote:
also - don't assume everyone's browser has flash player.
eg: mobile phones - some of the more recent models *might* have a
mobile
flash player ... which btw might handle flash 6 content! - ok maybe
an
iPhone can do better .. but honestly how many of those do you see
about?
Yeah, I think we all are aware of these small problems and i have faced
them also producing standard websites for a french company that had IE5.5
a a standard browser... haha
We cant expect other non professionals to have the same settings, latest
installations and technical experience as us.
I
://simplyborneo.com/gardenforums/
http://jungaling.com/katesplace/
- Original Message -
From: Sam Sherlock
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
As many have already commented I apply caution when using flash (because
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:13 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
As many have already commented I apply caution when using flash
(because of it creates extra work, because
Sherlock mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:13 AM
*Subject:* Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
As many have already commented I apply caution when using flash
(because of it creates extra work
I do think we also shouldn¹t forget that there are a lot of people out there
who need to find a webpage attractive in order to make them stay and read
the content. And some Flash(y) content can be useful/attractive. (Emphasis
on can¹!) Some people (probably a lot) really like that sort of stuff
Using some unobstrusive js effects much the same (and or better) can be made
without flash
http://simonwillison.net/static/2008/xtech/
which advises making a standard site that functions with basic html and
present it with css, and then add additional functionality
not my own work but an
On 7/5/08 1:37 PM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Using some unobstrusive js effects much the same (and or better) can be made
without flash
http://simonwillison.net/static/2008/xtech/
which advises making a standard site that functions with basic html and
present it with css,
kate wrote:
No disrespect to Sven but that must be the pits to take the very long learning
curve:
Create the Flash:
Then along comes 'A Visitor' and disable all your hard work..*doh
Sorry? You're blaming A Visitor for not being able to obtain the
information you are supposed to giving them?
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kate
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:30 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
Hi,
A forum I used to go to uesd to say some HTML and Flash.
Maybe this site helps a little bit:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20001029.html
Or:
http://www
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kate
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 6:30 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
Hi,
A forum I used to go to uesd to say some HTML and Flash.
Maybe this site helps a little bit:
http
The company I worl with has a big love for full flash websites and we have
produced some very nice but heavy and slow ones.
What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full
flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in
general??
I am personally
://jungaling.com/katesplace/
- Original Message -
From: Michael Persson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:15 PM
Subject: [WSG] Full flash websites
The company I worl with has a big love for full flash websites and we
I've used flash sites that have been poorly done - confusing interfaces
etc. Awful Experience.
I've used flash sites that have been built well. Excellent experience.
Accessible? Not really, but...
If you're providing a fall-back HTML version you're covered.
Joseph R. B. Taylor
/Designer /
Michael Persson wrote:
What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full
flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in
general??
Hate 'em.
I usually look in the footer for 'html/lite version' link.
If there isn't one, i'll probably end up
What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full
flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in
general??
Im a big fan of xhtml/flash hybrid sites myself. Usually I'll consider
using flash for anything but links(usability reasons) and the
The look good but aren't standards.
You pretty much hit the head on the problem. The same usability problems
also give them a problem with being found by search engines.
Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079
Michael Persson wrote:
The
as a
layer on top.
- Original Message -
From: Joseph Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] Full flash websites
I've used flash sites that have been poorly done - confusing interfaces
etc. Awful Experience
I say avoid flash whenever possible. Sometimes, however, it isn't. I
am just waiting for SVG to get more widely in use. That is going to
be... awesome!
Flash is good for use on sites on YouTube. Other things? Nah. HTML
and JavaScript can easily replace flash in many many cases.
Regards,
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Persson
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:16 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Full flash websites
The company I worl with has a big love for full
What do you people, professionals and hobby standardists think about full
flash websites?? where is the usability and accessibility for flash in
general??
Accessibility and search engine visibility of Flash in most cases is zero.
I've only heard of one Flash site that was considered accessible
I disable flash on all of my browsers because its most commonly used for
really really annoying advertisements. On the rare occasion that I want
to go to some site that needs flash to work, i reluctantly turn it on.
But I've not found one site of that type that I go back to - they
contain too
As many have already commented I apply caution when using flash (because of
it creates extra work, because users like Sven disable it by default and
much more besides)
The thing is some clients care initially more for the visual appeal (things
bouncing around etc) of websites and not for features
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