RE: [WSG] acronym and abbr and worms

2005-03-17 Thread Patrick Lauke
 russ - maxdesign

 Acronyms
 --
 Acronyms are a subset of abbreviations, as they are still 
 shortened words.
 However, they are more specific. An acronym is defined as a 
 WORD formed from
 the initial letters of a multi-word name. The important point 
 here is that
 an acronym must be a WORD - this means that the joined 
 initial letters must
 be able to be pronounced.

And this is where the worms usually are...the requirement for
pronouncability of the formed word. Certain developers (me included,
I'm afraid) don't see this as a main sticking point, and would
put initialisms into acronym, rather than abbreviation.

We *could* start debating this again, but because:

- acronyms are abbreviations, and therefore initialisms marked up
as acronyms are therefore still abbreviations
- the distinction of acronm and abbreviation is removed in XHTML2.0
(yes, I know...in 2021 when we'll finally be using it)
- no current semantic tool makes any hard distinction between them

I'd say it becomes an exercise in splitting hairs. The main key is
consistency: whether you think initialisms are acronyms or abbreviations,
choose a camp and stick with it. If, for instance, you consistently
mark up HTML as acronym title=HyperText Markup LanguageHTML/acronym
on all your pages, and later find out that you were wrong (once the
gods of semantics appear to you in a dream, or something), you can
still do a site-wide replace for it (or, heck, use XSLT to transform
all your XHTML, whatever).

However, for people who do like to split hairs, I'd take this one step
further and say: does WORD imply pronouncability? Discuss...

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



RE: [WSG] acronym and abbr and worms

2005-03-17 Thread Mike Foskett

Patrick:
  However, for people who do like to split hairs, I'd take this one step 
 further and say: does WORD imply pronouncability? Discuss...

er.. pronouncability?

Apparently under US law it is completely acceptable for a name to be spelt 
Brown yet pronounced Smith.

Generally speaking acronyms and initialised abbreviations are slowly becoming 
synonymous.
English is a living language and as such words may change meaning with time. 
For example gay.

But enough of the pedantry.

;)

mike 2k:)2


 
 Mike Foskett 
 Web Standards, Accessibility  Testing Consultant
 Multimedia Publishing and Production 
 British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) 
 Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ 
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Tel:  02476 416994  Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
 Fax: 02476 411410 
 www.becta.org.uk

 




-Original Message-
From: Patrick Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 17 March 2005 11:45
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] acronym and abbr and worms


 russ - maxdesign

 Acronyms
 --
 Acronyms are a subset of abbreviations, as they are still
 shortened words.
 However, they are more specific. An acronym is defined as a 
 WORD formed from
 the initial letters of a multi-word name. The important point 
 here is that
 an acronym must be a WORD - this means that the joined 
 initial letters must
 be able to be pronounced.

And this is where the worms usually are...the requirement for pronouncability 
of the formed word. Certain developers (me included, I'm afraid) don't see this 
as a main sticking point, and would put initialisms into acronym, rather than 
abbreviation.

We *could* start debating this again, but because:

- acronyms are abbreviations, and therefore initialisms marked up as acronyms 
are therefore still abbreviations
- the distinction of acronm and abbreviation is removed in XHTML2.0 (yes, I 
know...in 2021 when we'll finally be using it)
- no current semantic tool makes any hard distinction between them

I'd say it becomes an exercise in splitting hairs. The main key is
consistency: whether you think initialisms are acronyms or abbreviations, 
choose a camp and stick with it. If, for instance, you consistently mark up 
HTML as acronym title=HyperText Markup LanguageHTML/acronym on all your 
pages, and later find out that you were wrong (once the gods of semantics 
appear to you in a dream, or something), you can still do a site-wide replace 
for it (or, heck, use XSLT to transform all your XHTML, whatever).

However, for people who do like to split hairs, I'd take this one step further 
and say: does WORD imply pronouncability? Discuss...

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**




**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mimesweeper.com
**


**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



Re: [WSG] acronym and abbr and worms

2005-03-17 Thread pixeldiva
On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:35:40 -, Mike Foskett
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Apparently under US law it is completely acceptable for a name to be spelt 
 Brown yet 
 pronounced Smith.

Which might go some way to explaining my confusion upon finding out
that the name Choire was pronounced Cory, and just goes to show
that you can never assume how things are going to be pronounced by
people, never mind by access tech software!
 
 But enough of the pedantry.

Pedantry is like chocolate. There's no such thing as enough. :)

pix
http://www.pixeldiva.co.uk
**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**



Re: [WSG] acronym and abbr and worms

2005-03-17 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Pedantry is like chocolate. There's no such thing as
 enough. :)
lol pix, thats so true!



Shaun Johnson
IT Technician
Waddesdon CE School
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


This email has been sent from the Buckinghamshire LEA system if you have 
 cause for complaint regarding the content of this email please contact
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

**
The discussion list for  http://webstandardsgroup.org/

 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
 for some hints on posting to the list  getting help
**