Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Hi Kay, well as some awesome-looking examples of styled headings, to make them Dave Shea has some nice examples of using Times New Roman, half way through the article at: http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2003/07/24/times_new_ro/ Cheers, --ben http://www.daemon.com.au/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Oops. You're correct! Maybe I should just let John quote himself! :) Russ Russ, Perhaps this quote of John Allsop's should read, ...how much worse is it to put *content* inside the CSS file? -Hugh Todd :) John Allsopp (one of the original CSS guru's) explains this better than I can... He says If it is bad to put presentation on the page, how much worse is it to put presentation inside the CSS file? It is fundamentally unsound. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Granted, these are just examples by Dave, but this demonstrates why you should always include font-family. My browser defaults to sans serif here, since I don't have Times New Roman. From the font survey link posted yesterday I guess I am one of the 20 odd percent of Linux users who don't have this font. From my experience with Linux Times is the most common. font-family : Times New Roman, Times, serif; Regards Chris Blown Dave Shea has some nice examples of using Times New Roman, half way through the article at: http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2003/07/24/times_new_ro/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
The CSS3 content property is a grey semantic area IMHO. If you have hn content in the markup and adjust the presentation in the CSS like colours, fonts and backgrounds, Then what's so unsound about styling the content with an image, this is not content in my mind it is presentation, because it provides ornamentation (what CSS was designed to do) whilst preserving the element it was applied to. If the author ensures the image only does replacement, in other words no extra content is included in the image, then by removing the style sheet you don't lose anything but presentation. I agree with the idea that using the content property for adding content is a bad idea, but using content for replacement is not so bad as everyone is making out. Anyway since only a couple of browsers support this, its not a real alternative, yet... Cheers Chris Blown Perhaps this quote of John Allsop's should read, ...how much worse is it to put *content* inside the CSS file? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
russ weakley wrote: However, all of these image replacement methods have serious downsides that should be explained to designers before they jump on them as a solution. That's my view exactly. Some of the techniques are very good, but there's still nothing I'd want to use on a commercial site, where I think hackery should be kept to a minimum. Not to mention the extra development time - using css for layout is already pushing out the time required for html. Which is why I was looking for resources on fonts and examples of nicely styled headings. I want to prove to the designers that it *can* be done, images not required! Thanks to everyone who responded - much appreciated. We have a local internet industry social group here in Perth (http://www.port-80.net). Last night I heard that the next event will be a designers vs developers debate. Should be funny, although it could possibly end in violence :) K. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Kay wrote: I have the visibone font survey[1] already - does anyone know of any other resources or great examples? There is the Code Style font survey: http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/ Which has a far larger sample than visibone, but I don't know about it's accuracy (it is a self completed test) or how valid the sample is (ie the people most likely to complete the test are web designers). Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Scott wrote: did you ever see this at Russ' website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/headings-as-images/index.cfm It's a nice article about using images for headings, but still getting all the benefits of Hx tags. Fahrner Image Replacement seems to be the name given to it, you will more about it here: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/replace_text/ and here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/ (talking accessability and who it works with screen readers) Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Fahrner Image Replacement is all well and good, but does anyone have any pointers to using a similar method that will work (ie: display replacement text) for users with images turned off? Martin Nick Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/03/2004 03:10 PM Please respond to wsg To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags Scott wrote: did you ever see this at Russ' website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/headings-as-images/index.cfm It's a nice article about using images for headings, but still getting all the benefits of Hx tags. Fahrner Image Replacement seems to be the name given to it, you will more about it here: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/replace_text/ and here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/ (talking accessability and who it works with screen readers) Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Yep, There's a whole bunch of different techniques for it, all with various names. Russ' article links to all of em :) cheers, Scott. Nick Cowie wrote: Scott wrote: did you ever see this at Russ' website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/headings-as-images/index.cfm It's a nice article about using images for headings, but still getting all the benefits of Hx tags. Fahrner Image Replacement seems to be the name given to it, you will more about it here: http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/replace_text/ and here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fir/ (talking accessability and who it works with screen readers) Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * -- Scott Mebberson Director. CTO Enpresiv Group Team Macromedia Flash Macromedia Certified Professional email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | web www.enpresiv.com ph 1300 883 108 | international +61 421 117 508 | mobile 0421 117 508
RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Title: Message provide a gun to shoot themselves? (and mail one to the19 people still using n4.7) Tim HillComputer AssociatesGraphic Artisttel:+612 9937 0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 3 March 2004 3:56 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags The question is, how do we provide accessible websites for those with images, text, and indeed their computer switched off?? ;) It's been a long afternoon, Peter On 03/03/2004, at 3:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fahrner Image Replacement Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Kay Smoljak wrote:
does anyone know of any other resources or great
examples?
I may be slightly biased, but I think the centre h2 h3 headings
('Weblog' and 'This is a weblog post') on my as yet unfinished redesign look
pretty good:
http://lindsay.f2o.org/stage/layout.html
There might be something good in CSS Zen Garden (http://csszengarden.com/),
although most of them that I could see used images.
If you're only targetting IE, then you could use WEFT to embed your fonts:
(http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm), but
there isn't an equivalent for Gecko-based browsers :|
--
Lindsay Evans.
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
*
Re: [WSG] Nicely styled Hx tags
Scott Mebberson wrote: I'm not sure about any font examples like the Visibone one, however, did you ever see this at Russ' website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/headings-as-images/index.cfm I've yet to see an image replacement technique that worked for search engines, was cross-browser and didn't involve lots of messing around. I'd really much prefer to just style the h1 tags - background images can make them look pretty speccy. I will definitely check that article out, maybe I'm just lazy :) I'm in the same boat as you. Our designers love to use image headings, but I hate it for a whole swag of reasons, mailing search engine placements which using images (usually) kills. Anyhow, I found it to be a great article. Hopefully it'll help you with this issue too. You may have to compromise! Heh heh, I'm lucky that I don't have to compromise. if SEO is involved, they have to do what I say! *evil chuckle* thanks for the link! K. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
