[delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
Joshua, I definitely understand what you're saying, I did not foresee some of the problems that are now arising. The one change that I have made to the code, very recently, is that the default number of tags 'borrowed' is limited to 6, instead of 'Unlimited'. What was happening before was that any tag that was being used more then once was used by everyone, as you noted with '! mobiledesktop'. Now, with this change, users are simply tagging their links with a few relevant tags. I'm very concerned about flooding del.icio.us with crap, as are you. I hope the change that I made will help to patch things up. If not, I'd be willing to work to a sane conclusion. Thanks. John Resig http://ejohn.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:17 AM, joshua schachter wrote: Hi. I can't quite put my finger on why, exactly, yet, but I'm not thrilled about lazy sheep. We've definitely been burned in the past by alternative posting interfaces silently corrupting user's data. I'm also not thrilled about automatic tags and commenting; there should be some decision on the part of the user. The choice of tags seems somewhat abusable at the very worst, annoying at the best (for example, see http://del.icio.us/tag/!mobiledesktop for the dangers). I have thought about adding a read later sort of quick bookmarklet, which would add at most a system:readlater tag but nothing else. My instinct right now is to ban the use of this bookmarklet, unless anyone has any really good arguments. Joshua -- joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
Yeah, I guess I don't really see the point of a bookmarklet that just duplicates the tags and descriptions provided by others...as you say, the abuse potential is great and I don't see what the user really gets out of it: they'll end up with an erratic tag library that probably won't make sense to them or anyone else, with descriptions that may or may not be useful. On the other hand, I guess that's why it's called lazy sheep...just follow the herd. That's pretty much it, exactly. I keep a relatively well-defined tag library - because I find it to be useful, to me. However, I've simply run out of time trying to keep it maintained - I just want to throw my link into del.icio.us and forget it (for now). I should also bring up that the only purpose of del.icio.us isn't to use the tags to find your links again (although, it should be very important to its users) - there's also dumping your links to your weblog every night - and tags aren't necessarily that important there. Based upon the feedback that I've received, so far, people are finding this bookmarklet genuinely useful. The sheer number of people who simply click the recommended tags for each link they bookmark is staggering - and this should help them significantly. John Resig http://ejohn.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
Joshua, I definitely understand what you're saying, I did not foresee some of the problems that are now arising. The one change that I have made to the code, very recently, is that the default number of tags 'borrowed' is limited to 6, instead of 'Unlimited'. What was happening before was that any tag that was being used more then once was used by everyone, as you noted with '! mobiledesktop'. Now, with this change, users are simply tagging their links with a few relevant tags. I'm very concerned about flooding del.icio.us with crap, as are you. I hope the change that I made will help to patch things up. If not, I'd be willing to work to a sane conclusion. Thanks. John Resig http://ejohn.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:17 AM, joshua schachter wrote: Hi. I can't quite put my finger on why, exactly, yet, but I'm not thrilled about lazy sheep. We've definitely been burned in the past by alternative posting interfaces silently corrupting user's data. I'm also not thrilled about automatic tags and commenting; there should be some decision on the part of the user. The choice of tags seems somewhat abusable at the very worst, annoying at the best (for example, see http://del.icio.us/tag/!mobiledesktop for the dangers). I have thought about adding a read later sort of quick bookmarklet, which would add at most a system:readlater tag but nothing else. My instinct right now is to ban the use of this bookmarklet, unless anyone has any really good arguments. Joshua -- joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
That's pretty much it, exactly. I keep a relatively well-defined tag library - because I find it to be useful, to me. However, I've simply run out of time trying to keep it maintained - I just want to throw my link into del.icio.us and forget it (for now). I should also bring up that the only purpose of del.icio.us isn't to use the tags to find your links again (although, it should be very important to its users) - there's also dumping your links to your weblog every night - and tags aren't necessarily that important there. in this case, then there is no need to add any tags at all. Based upon the feedback that I've received, so far, people are finding this bookmarklet genuinely useful. The sheer number of people who simply click the recommended tags for each link they bookmark is staggering - and this should help them significantly. The recommended links are still different from what a bunch of other people chose. I'm pushing a change shortly; the posting engine will strip tags posted through lazy sheep. Sorry. Joshua ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
John Resig wrote: I'm really confused as to why you are disabling this - with the recent change that I made, it does not effect the performance or usability for other users and, in fact, many many people find this to be of great help when using del.icio.us (myself included). It helps to lower the barrier of entry for users who simply don't have the time to dig through tags and write things themselves. Could we please discuss this some more before disabling it entirely? I, and the couple hundred people using the bookmarklet, would definitely appreciate it. Same arguments as before. There should be at least some human interaction here on the choice of tags, or it makes the system much less valuable. It's too parasitic and enforces groupthink much more than what we provide; the current implementation of recommended tags isn't just the top N other tags. I'm all in favor of giving people some hints and help, but removing the interaction entirely is a mistake. Tagging is all about a way to encapsulate the user's intuition about the item being saved. This does not provide any of that functionality. I don't see the point of copying extended notes at all, nor are they required to save something. Joshua ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would prefer that it either ask or add no tags. I suppose we need to standardize and support some sort of read later tag, perhaps system:readlater How about just system:later? Lots of links aren't meant to be read, and it's shorter. -- -johnsu01 -http://www.wjsullivan.net ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [delicious-discuss] Re: lazy sheep
Or maybe more complete, it can be like system:later:read Because system:later:download , system:later:forschool and system:later:blogabout would be as valuable as system:later:read Would it be possible to tag the last part of system:later:... ? On 9/2/05, John Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: joshua schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would prefer that it either ask or add no tags. I suppose we need to standardize and support some sort of read later tag, perhaps system:readlaterHow about just system:later? Lots of links aren't meant to be read, and it's shorter.---johnsu01-http://www.wjsullivan.net ___discuss mailing listdiscuss@del.icio.ushttp://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- pwlin ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
