Steven Montgomery wrote:
If, as BYU Professor Richard Wilkins states, we need a Marriage Amendment
because activist judges have misinterpreted the Constitution (See the URL
immediately below), then why not simply limit their jurisdiction as
outlined in Article III, Section 2?
RB Scott wrote:
I'm growing weary of the tiresome assumption that activist
judge is a negative description. By definition any appellate
judge worth his gavel is an activist judge because he is often
asked to interpret constitutional law. I daresay that one man's
activist judge is another's strict
RB Scott wrote:
I do not support extramarital sex of
any kind.
What about sex within marriage if marriage is redefined to permit a man to
marry his German Shepherd or his boy friend? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER:
RB Scott wrote:
I agree, John. Notice that yesterday the proponents of the
amendment expanded language of the proposed amendment to give
states the right to adopt same sex union legislation and even
Orrin Hatch was dithering.
Where can I read about this? --JWR
RB Scott wrote:
It would *seem* to you, perhaps. It doesn't *seem* so to me. I DO
NOT support same sex marriage, but my methods for opposing it do
not include (at this point) supporting a constitutional amendment
defining **marriage.**
Tell us more about your methods for opposing same-sex
RB Scott wrote:
Tell us more about your methods for opposing same-sex
marriage. --JWR
I have done this before. I support the proposition that the state
should get out of sanctioning marriages altogether and should,
therefore ( as I noted in an earlier post today) draft
legislation that carefully
Does anyone know how I can find an online copy of Scalia's dissenting
opinion in Lawrence v. Texas? I've Googled, and all I can find are news
stories, not the actual dissenting opinion. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST
John W. Redelfs wrote:
Does anyone know how I can find an online copy of Scalia's dissenting
opinion in Lawrence v. Texas? I've Googled, and all I can find are news
stories, not the actual dissenting opinion. --JWR
Nevermind. I found it. Sorry to bother you. --JWR
sit, a lot of your discourse seems to talk
around the topic without ever really stating your position. Maybe I'm just
not smart enough to understand your otherwise lucent prose.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
I know of nothing
Hi, Jack Redelfs here, again.
Gerald Smith wrote:
Gary: Any group, whether a nation, community, business, or family has
culture. And the way cultures interact, adapt, fight, etc, are all the
same, regardless of the unit/organization. The only difference is the
time span required for change to
RB Scott wrote:
I think you've got it right. The old laws are off the books. If
they become laws again, they ought to be enforced. What do I
think the penalty ought to be for Sabbath breaking? Dunno. Let
me consult with my Jewish and SDA friends. Seriously, I don't
recall Christ preaching
Hi Gary. My name's Jack, I'm the only son of the listowner. Since I advised
him in writing the post you are responding to (I'm his history advisor), I was
interested in your reply and decided to respond.
Gerald Smith wrote:
That's somewhat of a fallacious generalization, John. Yes, it is
Gerald Smith wrote:
It might take Iraq 40-50 years to switch over to a strong democracy. So
what? It means our grandchildren's children will live in a world with
one more free nation that isn't run by radical kooks.
Hope springs eternal in the human breast,
Man never is but always to be blest.
Same-sex marriage will become legal in all or most of the United States
over the next five years.
A. Certainly
B. Likely
C. Maybe
D. Unlikely
E. Certainly not
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
Mankind will establish permanent space colonies by the end of the century.
A. Certainly
B. Likely
C. Maybe
D. Unlikely
E. Certainly not
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
Gays and lesbians should stay in the closet.
A. Strongly agree
B. Agree
C. Undecided
D. Disagree
E. Strongly Disagree
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
. Those families are almost all English
speaking.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
I know of nothing in the history of the Church or in the
history of the world to compare with our present
circumstances. Nothing happened in Sodom
How many of you play a musical instrument? How well do you play? I'm
curious about the musical makeup of the Zion list.
John W. Redelfs sings well, plays the piano fairly, and the violin poorly.
//
/// ZION LIST
, your grandchildren and
great grandchildren. For me that is a painful thought and a good reason
for family prayer, family scripture study, and Family Home Evening. And
even then our own families will be in terrible danger.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
. oil interests.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
I know of nothing in the history of the Church or in the
history of the world to compare with our present
circumstances. Nothing happened in Sodom and
Gomorrah which exceeds
together for what they want. The opponents of same-sex marriage, on the
other hand, seem to be in a state a great confusion pulling in several
different directions. I see no hope that the opponents of same-sex
marriage will prevail when they cannot even agree on a common strategy.
John W
Gerald Smith wrote:
I'm all for it, IF we can get Congress to do it, and then not renege on
it 10 years down the road under a liberal president. But how does this
affect state courts who are legislating the same things from the bench?
States would still be forced to draft amendments to their
RB Scott wrote:
Then there are economic issues to be considered. For instance:
suppose two good friends, both widowed mothers of minor children
decided their chances for remarriage were nil. Yet, in the
interest of keeping their families out the poorhouse, to
eliminate the need to leave children
the idea that the traditional family is not the ideal family.
Actually, I think I'm coming more and more to agree with you that the
government should just refrain from defining the family altogether. It is
obviously going to do a poor job of it.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL
RB Scott wrote:
Does society derive benefits from encouraging people to form more stable
and more economically robust family units? The government says yes. So
does the church.
In the Proclamation on the Family the Church defines the family as a man
and woman. I don't believe the Church has
RB Scott wrote:
Huh? It defines marriage as a institution between one man and one
woman.
The wording hasn't even been agreed upon yet. You are getting ahead of
yourself. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it
RB Scott wrote:
You didn't describe your purpose. While your footnotes may
support what you claim -- as I recall you provide a bibliography,
not traditional footnotes -- it requires the reader to assume
you've interpreted the source material correctly and that the
source material supports what
the right regardless of what may become
necessary in some yet unforeseen future. Laws that are passed can be
repealed. Even amendments can be repealed as circumstances change.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional
RB Scott wrote:
My guess is that it won't be approved by Congress. The danger in
a drawn out, bitter campaign that ultimately loses is that it
will absorb so much political and financial captial there won't
be much left over to shape how (or if) same sex marriage is
presented in the schools. A
hearing the evidence or both sides of the story?
The mob mentality, driven by the media, would be laughable if it weren't so
sad.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
Martha Stewart is guilty on all counts.
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
/
states and gay marriage
states.
But...
I may be wrong. It may be that Musgrave amendment is not passable in its
current form. If so, then the Hatch idea is better than the current situation.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED
up front that an amendment
is politically impossible. And we should remember that what can be done
with a simple majority can be undone with a simple majority. If an
amendment would be harder to pass, it would also be much harder to repeal.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL
is running on the American Party ticket? The Constitution
Party? The Libertarian Party?
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that things were worse in the times
unmarried
couples or groups.
---
Question: Is this the amendment, introduced in May of 2003, that President
Bush is asking Congress to send out to the states? Or is there some other
federal marriage amendment with different wording that is being promoted?
John W. Redelfs
standard of living when we already have
one of the highest standards of living in the world.
John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=
The traditional family is under heavy attack. I do not know
that things were worse in the times of Sodom
about finding this. There seems to be a lot of other good stuff
at this Internet address too.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly
if they will ever do a movie of THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding
RB Scott wrote:
I'll stick with Tom. I'm a low brow kinda guy.
What do you know about Thomas Wolfe who wrote Look Homeward, Angel? I
almost borrowed that one before I noticed Tom Wolfe right next to it on the
shelf.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
Tribes? Could this have reference to such writings as the Dead Sea Scrolls
and Nag Hammadi manuscripts? Or is it a reference to writings that have
not yet been discovered?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree
reading the Bible without
that guide. Everything that is said here of the Apocrypha could as well be
said about the whole Bible, so what is the point in making a distinction?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree
Testaments?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding. (President
Gordon B. Hinckley, October
Tomorrow it is exactly one month until the opening of The Lord of the
Rings: The Return of the King on December 17th. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
The Hymn of Judas Thomas the Apostle
The Hymn of the Pearl
or
The Hymn of the Robe of Glory
When I was a little child,
and dwelling in my kingdom,
in my father's house, and was content with the wealth and the
luxuries of my nourishers,
from the East, our home,
my parents equipped me (and) sent me
RB Scott wrote:
Great story. It's been circulating for weeks.
Where did you first read it, Ron? Old news isn't very useful. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
Tom Matkin wrote:
Sonnet 133 (Some children live for only just a while)
by Tom Matkin, March 30, 2002
Some children live for only just a while
Mere visitors not really part of us
Perhaps they've proved themselves without this trial
Not needing but a touch of all this fuss.
It wounds us when they
I don't know which party I am more upset with, the Democrats for dragging
the country to the left, or the Republicans for putting up the sham fight
that let them do it. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it
have a rip-roaring
discussion, aren't you?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding
. They make no
pretense of objectivity, but they give me the right-wing slant that I can't
get anywhere else.
What am I overlooking. I'm a little bored with the news sources I've been
using. I'd like to try something new.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
If God is a man, and he existed before the world, and he created the world,
how could mankind have evolved on this planet? I mean, how did God become
a man?
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
RB Scott wrote:
Cool your fighting blood and freshen your synapses, Till. If Brother
McConkie is right this will obviously be a war of words -- of good
thinking/doing prevailing over evil. Otherwise, s'plain to me how one
would go about slaying the a spirit, or one of the Three Nephites, for
they? Or is this war going
to be fought strictly between those who are mortal upon the earth then?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must
?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding. (President
Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003
Tom Matkin wrote:
What are the correlating factors between gun ownership and illegal drug
usage that lead you to make this comparison? Are you suggesting that,
like drugs, gun ownership is an activity used to escape from the
harshness or boredom of everyday life that is so highly addictive that
are inside the Church. I
have to believe that or discount the need for the gospel in the world.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly
I grew up outside the Church and met a number of good, honorable, even
Christlike people. But the most Christlike people I have ever known, by
far, are a small number of Mormons that I have met since joining the
Church. But that is just anecdotal. --JWR
Don't forget the greed gap. That is the difference between a man's
physiological needs, and his psychological needs for a particular standard
of living. --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
permanent brain damage. Maybe it is early onset Alzheimers. Dang!
Your friend and brother,
John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html
Is having ones Calling and Election Made Sure and being sealed by the Holy
Spirit of Promise the same thing? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Didn't one of the apostles give a talk How to Become a Gospel Scholar or
some such title? Does anyone here know which talk I'm referring to? Who
gave it? Where it can be found? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER:
help you?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve
behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve
behavior. --Boyd K. Packer
===
All my
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
/
You seem to have
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
Christopher Hitchens hates Mother Teresa. This is not a secret.
Given some of Hitchens' proclivities, I am not necessarily prone to
uncritical acceptance of his viewpoint, but the man is very intelligent
and, I think, makes a few good points. (Not that I know enough about
. Wars and rumors of wars
14. False Christs and false prophets
15. Violence proliferates
16. Surge in witchcraft and satanism
17. Desolating sickness [AIDS] covers the land
Which ones am I missing?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
to war against Jerusalem
17. Constitution saved when it hangs by a thread
18. Anti-christ rises up before all nations
19. No man can buy or sell without the mark of the beast
20. Renewed persecution of the saints
What else? What have I missed?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
Jon Spencer wrote:
My wife hopes to retire in about three years. We hope to serve missions
for the Church if our health permits. In the meantime, I'll prepare for
my
mission with scripture and gospel study, and by continuing to run these
email lists.
So, whose going to take over the email
Cousin Bill wrote:
New thread attempt number 2.
The topic of Dungeons and Dragons has come up before. Someone
forwarded this to me, so I thought I would forward it to you
guys. If you've never played DD then you might not understand
what you come out as. But this link shows you what alignment,
Steven Montgomery wrote:
Well, the other day I traded it for an almost brand new EZ3-Trike (A 21
speed recumbent trike which can go faster than a mountain bike. My kids
can't ride a regular bike so we were looking for various types of trikes
that they could ride) worth $750.00. Which means that
ambitions to own
an even better hat, by and by, maybe a homburg but probably another fedora.
Where do you get your hats? Here in Ketchikan the selection is dismal. Do
you buy any of them on the Internet. If so, what are some of your favorite
websites?
John W. Redelfs
favorite color is yellow. And
my favorite firearm is the 1911A1 Colt .45 ACP.
And now you know more about me than you probably want to know. If I've
left anything out, just ask.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
The study
Gerald Smith wrote:
I have some quotes here, which will show that one must do more than
receive the Holy Ghost and reject it to become a candidate for perdition.
You will see that one must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens
opened up, know God, and then totally and completely rebel.
I agree
Ron Scott wrote:
Interesting and revealing response. Freud would have a field day with you.
Like so many of the far right we have remained, of couple GBH and BKP,
as if the latter makes the former tolerable for now, ignorinng, advertantly
or inadvertantly, the fact that President Monson is next
politics on the Internet I've
become increasingly confused to the point that I doubt if many of your
stereotypes would apply. Perhaps we could discuss the evolution of my
political thought sometime.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
Ron Scott wrote:
She lives in Newton? Where do the attend church? Weston or Cambridge? Is
her husband at Tufts or BC (didn't know BC had a dental school).
I don't know, Ron. I get the schools back there are mixed up. I just
fired off an email to my daughter asking her. I'm embarrassed that I
Ron Scott wrote:
If she lives in Newton and attends the regular ward for the city (as
opposed to the many student wards in Cambridge) she goes ( I assume, given
her relationship to you, that she's active) to church in Weston, where
I'm supposed to. Her bishop is a very good friend, Cary Hopkins.
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote:
It's even harder for an older (middle-aged) widow. I wouldn't mind
finding a time-only companion. But it seems that the widowers in the
church want to be sealed to another woman, instead of finding one who is
already sealed. At my bishop's behest I tried
Ron Scott wrote:
Somehow I misplaced the address for the website, where I can read posts on
line. Would you please forward the address to me when you get a moment.
http://topica.com/lists/zion/read
//
/// ZION LIST
Gerald Smith wrote:
I'm currently reading this note you sent. ;-)
I'm also involved in how to write science fiction and fantasy by our
own Orson Scott Card; and The Book of J edited by Harold Bloom.
Gary
This is really a coincidence. I'm reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Bloom,
and he makes a
finished
reading a western by Ralph Compton entitled THE VIRGINIA CITY TRAIL. Also,
I'm trying to finish up reading THE TEACHINGS OF GORDON B. HINCKLEY, but I
have quite a way to go. It is a pretty big book and not exactly fast reading.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
Steven Montgomery wrote:
The play by Aristophanes is book two of a Great Books of the Western
World reading plan (See: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/books/gb195210.html
) that I have embarked upon. There are many such plans available. Many of
the books (Or selections) I have already read so I
There is a worldwide BYU Alumni satellite broadcast tonight, but I don't
know the time. Is anyone here planning to attend? --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
///
Steven Montgomery wrote:
Let's see, if I recall correctly, I've read the Teachings of President
Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter and Gordon B.
Hinckley. I've also read the Journal of Discourses. I have also read the
complete (to my knowledge, at least) published works of,
Evidently many among us have made a dreadful mistake, but not
unpardonable, in thinking that the sons of perdition will be very few. We
have heard it said at times that they will be so few that they probably
could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Where this thought
originated we may not
Lew Thomas wrote:
You are invited to the Tabernacle on Temple Square in Salt Lake City on
FRIDAY, NOV. 7, FROM 7 TO 8 P.M. to hear President Gordon B. Hinckley
and new BYU President Cecil O. Samuelson speak at a Worldwide Alumni
Gathering.
Because we do not have email addresses for all our BYU
of the Holy
Ghost that Jesus is the Christ and then turn altogether away from that
testimony and knowingly fight against him.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never
Grampa Bill in Savannah wrote:
It has been written that if a boy does not grow up to be a better man than
his father, then they are both failures. Can we parphrase that to say that
if a boy doesn't grow up to be further to the right than his father (or
mother) then they are both failures?
that this is official Church doctrine? Our missionaries
teach it to investigators and it is taught to all new members as part of
the Gospel Essentials Sunday School class. Is this controversial, or
what? Are any of the Brethren divided on this?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED
mourning period?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve
behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve
behavior. --Boyd K. Packer
===
All my
. But no, Elder
Bruce R. McConkie was never the President of the Church. He was a
prophet, but he wasn't the Prophet.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve
behavior quicker than a study
manual from time
to time to see if I get any disagreement, and if so, from whom. I keep
hearing about false doctrine creeping into our correlated manuals, but I
don't know of any particular instances. I thought this might be one way of
finding out.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL
Ron Scott wrote:
It also troubling that some members of the Church, particularly those with
far right political views, think he is the only latter-day prophet worth
listening to.
Strawman. There are no such far right members still in the Church that I
am aware of. And I know an awful lot of the
Ron Scott wrote:
If that's how you define, eternal marriage between one man and one woman,
then no problem.
Between man and woman. According to DC 132, plural marriage is OK as long
as it is authorized by the priesthood. --JWR
Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz wrote:
Celestial marriage is important...if I didn't think so, I wouldn't have
written so many woe is me posts over the years. ;-) But the
covenants made in the sealing room won't exactly hold a lot of water if
the persons who made them don't follow through, or in
to the same conclusion.
What do you think?
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding. (President
Ron Scott wrote:
Ah yes. And no Korihors and wolves in sheeps clothing either, right John?
I'm pretty sure there are some Korihors and wolves in sheep's
clothing. Ezra Taft Benson said so. grin --JWR
//
/// ZION LIST
what they are doing. Maybe you could fill me in, do you think? Not that
you were ever a commie or a pinko.
And if you go looking for commies and pinkos you still might be able to
find some of them if you look in the right places:
China
North Korea
Cuba
Vietnam
Harvard
Yale
???
John W. Redelfs
Packer,
etc. I think you missed the word such in the above quotation. I'm not
denying that there are far right in the Church. I am one myself. But
such as hearken ONLY to Ezra Taft Benson I am not, nor do I know others
who retain their membership.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL
PRINCIPLES.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
The study of the doctrines of the Gospel will improve
behavior quicker than a study of behavior will improve
behavior. --Boyd K. Packer
===
All my
Tom Matkin wrote:
But I am curious how we are going to square the circle of proselyting
those corners of the world where it is in good standing. But God has
figured that out and he'll let us know when we have a need to know. For
now, those who insist on practicing it separate themselves from
for time and all eternity. I
just hope the two sisters get along.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we
must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly,
soft-spoken, neighborly
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