BTW, I am sure you guys are aware but there are some tools for flocking like the ones you have in Cinema4D
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_dop_popcurveforce&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HG4yc6di4pSPGmjjCQ4nMw4HMQzz-WNeoV_iUe2V20Y&s=ZAZwrCLfNzu1gwYSL6rpD8PdDhZ4Zl70odynEqbVLtY&e= https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sidefx.com_docs_houdini_nodes_dop_popmetaballforce&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HG4yc6di4pSPGmjjCQ4nMw4HMQzz-WNeoV_iUe2V20Y&s=LVL8fbw4IGn6v-DNxdiz_4nLFXHlulY4W5UpxYu0zdI&e= Out of the box, no need for programming jb > On 27 Oct 2017, at 14:53, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I see… indeed you have a few tools there it is true that for motion graphics > you have to deal with technical things in Houdini that nor XSI not Cinema4D > force you to… this is something gI would love them to tweak so I will ask … > who knows. > > jb > >> On 27 Oct 2017, at 12:42, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> What do you exactly mean by “control of motion” >> >> That's a very opened ended statement but my own interpretation was that you >> don't get very far in motion design without a good understanding of a DCC's >> particle system and motion paths in general. On that basis the most obvious >> comparison is the intuitive nature of Mograph and X-Particles in C4D to >> Particles in Houdini. You won't get far in Houdini particle effects without >> expressions at the least and Vex Wrangles to match some of the stock effects >> in X-Particles. C4D & X-Particles both put intuitive UX front and centre; >> the whole question/answer metaphor used in X-Particles is a UX tour de >> force. When you couple that with the elegance of C4D's scene manager it >> makes for a very intuitive workflow. >> >> Houdini is without doubt the more powerful and flexible option, but C4D >> enables a motion designer to get the task done faster and more intuitively. >> >> On 27 October 2017 at 09:04, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jordiba...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> I am very interested in understanding the things others see in Houdini that >> are wrong or not quite there. >> >> What do you exactly mean by “control of motion” >> >> Jb >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 27 Oct 2017, at 00:48, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com >> <mailto:jonathan.moo...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >>> The short answer to your question Phil is no. Control of motion in Houdini >>> isn't as easy or intuitive as it is with XSI/ICE. But the longer answer is >>> that you can easily build bespoke tools in Houdini to provide the exact >>> flavour of motion control you favour. >>> >>> Houdini gives you less out of the box but it's far easier to create bespoke >>> tools in Houdini than with any other DCC. >>> >>> On 27 October 2017 at 00:18, phil harbath <phil.harb...@jamination.com >>> <mailto:phil.harb...@jamination.com>> wrote: >>> I would be interested to know if Motion Creation is as easy and powerful as >>> it is in ICE, I can find I can do whatever I want to do for the most part >>> in ice, create point clouds in most any fashion, pop them in and out at any >>> time, and apply animated colors to them as I see fit, I would think that >>> you do much of this in C4D but without the complete control you can get >>> with ICE, however I wonder if the same ease of creation is there with >>> Houdini. I agree with others I would just assume continue to use >>> Softimage/Ice, however, I worry about the day, Soft just doesn’t open. I >>> have had problems like this with other programs where just recently some >>> updates whether it be windows 10 or the video drivers, have caused certain >>> things to crash, and has caused me great anxiety. >>> >>> From: Jonathan Moore <> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:07 PM >>> To: Official Softimage Users Mailing >>> List.https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_forum_-23-21forum_xsi-5Flist&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=HG4yc6di4pSPGmjjCQ4nMw4HMQzz-WNeoV_iUe2V20Y&s=iOiMTbZP6iKXDYk1V7Uh1Be7Oor2oWR2cuoYLea5vNA&e= >>> <> >>> Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away... >>> >>> Those coming from the likes C4D and After Effects doing wonderful stuff in >>> Houdini were in many cases already technical artists. One of the >>> Aixsponza/Entagma boys (Manuel) started out in XSI as it happens, the other >>> was skilled in Processing (Moritz). And Simon Holmedal was a math nerd long >>> before he gazed eyes on C4D, never mind Houdini. Ben Watt on the other hand >>> is a great example of a C4D artist not used to technical workflows who >>> rapidly adapted to using Houdini as his main platform. >>> >>> Motion design is my thing and I encourage any artists I know to learn >>> Houdini, but sadly for some, things don't click. At the moment I'm working >>> with others on a Mograph/MASH type suite of tools for Houdini. Creating the >>> cloners, effectors and falloffs of a typical motion graphics plugin suite >>> is the easy part, making it a 'gateway drug' into the delights of Houdini, >>> a little harder! But we feel one of the major hooks is performance and >>> luckily the v16 release cycle has seen critical SOP nodes become thread >>> friendly (e.g. the Copy and Point SOP's for starters). C4D and Maya's >>> motion design tools are throttled by a single threaded core, so a suite of >>> tools in Houdini with similar capabilities, whilst being optimised for >>> fully threaded workflows will hopefully provide further encouragement for >>> motion artists to deepen their Houdini knowledge. ;) >>> >>> On 26 October 2017 at 21:30, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >>> No worries Jonathan.. >>> >>> It is nevertheless interesting that non-technical artists like those coming >>> from C4D and AfterEffects are jumping on Houdini and some really are doing >>> amazing work the like we haven’t seen so may be it will be an evolution in >>> the sense that understanding the processes may be fundamental for the type >>> of work they intend to do. >>> >>> Anyway… good luck though >>> >>> hugs >>> jb >>> >>>> On 26 Oct 2017, at 19:41, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I wasn't intending to pick holes Jordi, so apologies if it came over that >>>> way. But yes, be it nodal shading, nodal compositing or full featured end >>>> to end procedural modeling and animation; nodes scare the bejesus out of a >>>> many artists. Personally, I find nodes a more visually descriptive view of >>>> things but have come to realise there are many that don't share my view. >>>> :) >>>> >>>> On 26 October 2017 at 19:29, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >>>> Indeed you are right, I probably have a skewed vision due to the fact that >>>> everyone is now exposed to Nuke (and here XSI) which have node based >>>> approaches but may be outside is not so obvious. >>>> >>>> I hope you have fun though. ;-) >>>> jb >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 26 Oct 2017, at 18:44, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Jordi, I'm only recounting the feedback I get from the artists I support. >>>>> Some of these artists find nodal approaches per se as being technical. >>>>> >>>>> You, I and most on this list know this not to be the case, but we have to >>>>> be considerate that not all artists are wired the same as us. >>>>> >>>>> On 26 October 2017 at 18:13, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >>>>> Could you give me an example of various stages of a production where you >>>>> need those skills? I can only see a few places where you do and others >>>>> that you might if you want to do complex stuff (like modern abstract >>>>> motion graphics for example) >>>>> >>>>> Let’s also remember, only recently we have Wrangle nodes and although >>>>> they are awesome, you didn’t even have them a few years back yet you were >>>>> able to do anything (slower of course) in other manners. A good example >>>>> is the new Point Wrangle versus the old Point SOP. >>>>> >>>>> I still think for Previz, Modelling, Animation (not technical FX >>>>> animation), Layout, Shading, Texturing, Lighting and Rendering you need >>>>> Zero skills. >>>>> >>>>> But may be I am missing something. >>>>> jb >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Oct 2017, at 17:29, Jonathan Moore <jonathan.moo...@gmail.com <>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same >>>>>> thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more >>>>>> viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start. >>>>>> True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those >>>>>> come easy if you really go for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I say this as a Houdini fan. Houdini is only an easy transition for >>>>>> technical artists. I support teams of artists from fine art backgrounds >>>>>> as well as technical artists and those with a fine art background even >>>>>> found ICE a challenge. For larger teams made up of both TD's and artists >>>>>> this isn't a major issue, but the fact that so much of Houdini is >>>>>> Wrangle-centric these days causes problems for those with a purely art >>>>>> school background who don't know their way around a scripting language, >>>>>> never mind a C-like programming language. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think it's untrue to say 'Houdini is not hard anymore', but more true >>>>>> to say that Houdini is easier to transition to from another DCC (for >>>>>> those with a technical aptitude). You won't get far in Houdini if you >>>>>> can't at the very least think programmatically, and that still goes for >>>>>> those that stick to VOP's rather than Wrangles. >>>>>> >>>>>> One can argue that 3d is an inherently technical art, but there are >>>>>> plenty of professionals working in media & entertainment based studio >>>>>> businesses that get by just fine without any aptitude for scripting & >>>>>> programming. Unfortunately, I don't think it's untrue to state that it's >>>>>> difficult to get past the basics in Houdini without a technical aptitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 October 2017 at 17:01, Jordi Bares <jordiba...@gmail.com <>> wrote: >>>>>> The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same >>>>>> thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more >>>>>> viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start. >>>>>> >>>>>> True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those >>>>>> come easy if you really go for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> jb >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > On 26 Oct 2017, at 16:07, Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk <>> >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Houdini is still to technical to even start using. Blender I have >>>>>> > actually looked at and it doesn't look half as bad as Maya, but it >>>>>> > also very much depends on where you are working or aspire to work. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Maya is a ticket to work in most places these days I guess, but it is >>>>>> > also certain to drive you mad, and hate going to work everyday. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Honestly I would love to work with Houdini, and might even sit down >>>>>> > and try and learn it some day, but it is still damn hard to start >>>>>> > using, so downtime is considerable. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > MB >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 14:53 skrev Gerbrand Nel >>>>>> >> <nagv...@gmail.com <>>: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to >>>>>> >>> learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true >>>>>> >>> and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I >>>>>> >>> actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered >>>>>> >>> textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya >>>>>> >>> artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives >>>>>> >>> could have been if things had been different. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Morten >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> If you read on, the story splits. >>>>>> >> Kinda like a "choose your own adventure" >>>>>> >> Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!! >>>>>> >> Others choose NOT-Maya and live. >>>>>> >> Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser. >>>>>> >> Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten? >>>>>> >> G >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ------ >>>>>> >> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to >>>>>> >> softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> with "unsubscribe" in the >>>>>> >> subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>>> > ------ >>>>>> > Softimage Mailing List. >>>>>> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>>> > <> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>>> <> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>>>>> <> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> >>>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>>> >>>>> ------ >>>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> >>>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> >>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>>> >>>> ------ >>>> Softimage Mailing List. >>>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> >>>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com <> >>> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >>> >>> ------ >>> Softimage Mailing List. >>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >>> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the >>> subject, and reply to confirm. >> >> ------ >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the >> subject, and reply to confirm. >> >> ------ >> Softimage Mailing List. >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com >> <mailto:softimage-requ...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the >> subject, and reply to confirm. >
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