A separate ”riser/backflow room” that has a door opening onto the stair enclosure (even a rated door) could be problematic per the building code.
2018 IBC 1023.4 limits the types of spaces that can open directly to interior exit stairways. From: å... .... <eurekaig...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 7:31 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Riser in a rated stair enclosure ---- SCDLLR NOTICE (M365) ---- • This email is from an external email address. Please use caution when deciding whether to open any attachments or when clicking links. • Personally Identifiable Information (PII) should not be included in e-mail text or attachments. Do not save or transmit PII unencrypted. Rated chase for sprinkler piping and/or riser appurtenances within a rated stairway is excessive protection per past norms of practice. I would tolerate sprinkler pipe and appurtenances in a stairway, provided egress AND maintenance clearances. Risk tolerance has declined over the years, but this ask might originate from motivations that have not delinced over the years. Scot Deal Excelsior Risk & Fire Engineering gms: +420 606 872 129 The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away - picasso On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 3:48 PM Hinson, Ryan <rhin...@burnsmcd.com<mailto:rhin...@burnsmcd.com>> wrote: Placement/coordination within the stairwell is also important since the riser location cannot encroach into the minimum egress width or height required through the stairwell. Ryan L. Hinson, PE*, SET** \ Burns & McDonnell Associate Fire Protection Engineer \ Upper Midwest Region O 612-900-3755 \ M 763-688-4045 \ F 952-229-2923 rhin...@burnsmcd.com<mailto:rhin...@burnsmcd.com> \ burnsmcd.com<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.burnsmcd.com%2f&c=E,1,Mcj_Al8hjmfFBEV5_U05JpEBZ_o27vDB6iurmR9u1bDX6w4DxY5YBgDW0njpL0u8nOdkqZsMaWWArBUcPbYJMog3HfySg-yrzv-kQ-q7HKXsdKFMQw,,&typo=1> 8201 Norman Center Drive, Suite 500 \ Bloomington, MN 55437 *Registered in: AK, LA, MD, MN, PA, TX, & UT **NICET IV - Water-Based Systems Layout From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 3:57 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure Of a separate riser ROOM for backflow, etc. Definitely not saying that you need a chase within the stair shaft, just that you’re not allowed to use the under-landing space for a “riser room”. Steve From: Prahl, Craig <craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:48 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure I’ve never seen a requirement for a 1 or 2-hr enclosure of a riser in a stair. The stair towers I’ve encountered are typically rated 2-hrs and the combination sprinkler/standpipe riser located under the first landing or off to the unused side of the ground level has never been rejected by an AHJ. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards | craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.jacobs.com/__;!!KZTdOCjhgt4hgw!-_khxU8gU0_6jc895I7kRbnU8JghRDsWgqOblZ4jr7Qp2IVbR30VYw_hWvNFtphnl0uWpB9KIvbYi1pvZz4$> 1041 East Butler Road Greenville, South Carolina 29606 CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS From: Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com<mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 4:30 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure Right, as long as your “riser/backflow room” is separated from the rest of the stair shaft. And it might have to be 2-hour rated, not just 1-hour. To the question of the sprinkler riser, there isn’t any restriction in the code, except for the obvious provisions for fire-stopping penetrations. Steve L. From: Anthony Carrizosa <anth...@archerconstruction.com<mailto:anth...@archerconstruction.com>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:22 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Riser in a rated stair enclosure We do backflows and risers in stairs all the time, typically below the intermediate landing, as long as it’s a minimum 1 hour construction then it has been ok with most jurisdictions. Remember standpipes and floor controls are typically in stairs as a standard. Anthony Carrizosa Project Manager | Fire Protection 7855 S 206th St Kent, WA 98032 Cell: 206-679-5283 | Office Dir: 253-341-4593 [cid:image001.jpg@01DA9008.87388FA0] https://archerconstruction.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https*3a*2f*2farcherconstruction.com*2f&c=E,1,Wdb65AWzMgSBzW3HDw91SfcRQCtxDUQKoJf-UowQ-WnB_WMosgG-8W7eLePJ42PwWQvLiQx16Pls052VqwHO7tKm-_u5AnWly0ewkNiMkxn-AjQb1JI,&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tHph3goA$> From: Jeff Werre <jeff.we...@goodyearaz.gov<mailto:jeff.we...@goodyearaz.gov>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2024 1:09 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Riser in a rated stair enclosure Does code allow a sprinkler riser to be installed in a rated stairwell? I cannot find anything that prohibits it, but would like others opinions (experiences). Thank you- Jeff Werre, CFM Fire Plan Review and Inspection Specialist Development Services City of Goodyear, Arizona 1900 North Civic Square Goodyear, AZ 85395 c 602 316-0704 w goodyearaz.gov<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.goodyearaz.gov*2f&c=E,1,HWheNqpd4bMAObWDA1Pz4jKGCAJR-thfNkyG-V6ubIPnRmE78JXq5nU1kLB5Uv0b6yAs3DnR0fq9Cb648VwhZkjzd0drubjF-G192TGVad51Zbnsm7L6vOrmJg,,&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tVFDFq8g$> e jeff.we...@goodyearaz.gov<mailto:jeff.we...@goodyearaz.gov> From: Ken Wagoner <k...@parsleyconsulting.com<mailto:k...@parsleyconsulting.com>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 1:17 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: NFPA 14 2019 Hose Connection on the Roof ⚠ This email arrived from an external source - Please exercise caution when opening any attachments or clicking on links Completely agree with you John. Considering that I work with two adjacent agencies, each of which uses a different hose thread. One uses National Standard Thread, the other National Hose Thread. It's difficult to explain to contractors that identification of the hose threads to be supplied on private fire hydrants or hose valves can be as critical as it gets. sincerely, Ken Wagoner, SET Parsley Consulting 500 West Mechanic Street Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235 Phone: (760) 745-6181 Visit the website<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com*2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tX2yXVSk$> On 2/21/2024 1:13 PM, John Denhardt wrote: Rick’s and Steve’s comments are spot on. Give the fire department what they need/want. Do not install something that no one will ever use in an emergency condition. John John August Denhardt, P.E. Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association 301-343-1457 On Feb 21, 2024, at 13:30, Rick Matsuda <rick26...@gmail.com><mailto:rick26...@gmail.com> wrote: Steve’s guidance is the best. When it comes to hose valves and standpipe requirements, always verify with the AHJ to find out what they want. Rick On Feb 21, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com><mailto:st...@protectiondesign.com> wrote: To Rick’s comments: Concur, and also offer that while the standard doesn’t require a valve where there is no roof access, I am aware of numerous AHJ’s who do. The stated intent of the rooftop connection(s) is to enable forward flow testing of the system. However – and this goes to my mantra of many years now – it is incumbent on the designer to verify with the serving FD is they require roof connections that they may use for firefighting. I have been made aware of several fire incidents that used roof connection hose streams and I am also aware of fireground strategies that encompass these connections. The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard. Steve L. From: Rick Matsuda <rick26...@gmail.com><mailto:rick26...@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 9:51 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org><mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: NFPA 14 2019 Hose Connection on the Roof This is my opinion only from what I remember after being retired for ten years. The requirement for installing a hose valve is driven by the stairway requirements found in the building code which requires at least one stairway providing access to the roof. If the stairway extends to the roof, then a hose valve is required at the top landing or on the roof. If there is no roof access from the stairway, then no hose valve is required. The fire service will use the hose valve where they have safe access from the stairway but they will not walk across the roof dragging fire hose to hook up to a hose valve located where no safe access was provided. Rick Matsuda On Feb 21, 2024, at 10:47 AM, Fpdcdesign <fpdcdes...@gmail.com<mailto:fpdcdes...@gmail.com>> wrote: There are people here with more experience than I, but if one outlet goes to the roof, the requirement is met. On Feb 21, 2024 at 11:34 AM, <Joe Burtell [MT-BILL]<mailto:jburt...@summitfiresecurity.com>> wrote: If I have 3 stair towers and the middle on has access to the roof and I provide a connection as required by 7.3.2.7* “Hose connections shall be provided at the highest landing of stairways with stairway access to a roof”, do the other (2) not have to go to the roof because of 7.3.2.9.2 “The hose connection required by 7.3.2.9 shall not be required where at least one hose connection in accordance with 7.3.2.7 is provided in the building”. <image001.jpg> Joe Burtell Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653<tel:406-204-4653> 406-861-4507<tel:406-861-4507> 3004 1st Ave South Billings , MT 59101 Office: 406‑652‑7697 www.summitfiresecurity.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http*3a*2f*2fwww.summitfiresecurity.com*2f&c=E,1,ZyzzqWo58xliyC5jRd9RdTLBBZo5jBEbiHix11FarpdW6p9BZLi5cyYnCyfcGhCFs7Mjew4A84L4gMd9Zn-QcKk5wbpkUpp2_prGEtUdqFeTwliA1vO3eEu-2E71&typo=1__;JSUlJQ!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!AKDEQrf6NuN-W7D9y4dezAtAkbuSU8nl5s0ZAFQ7pDJyr1jiHYyoFHcF4_6Yz8odTqlPaH82RnQG9j3tjGXKPfo$> This information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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