Hi Keith and All,
I'll bet Keith's eyes lit up when he seen this
;-).
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <Dick Boyd -- The amount of lead (and associated
> toxins) getting into the
> food chain from crashes is minuscule in COMPARISON
> to the discarded lead
> reaching our landfills, leaching into the water and
> hence the food chain.>
He's right here but doesn't tell you that in the
US the amount leaching for landfills is miniscule too.
Most of the lead leaching from landfills comes
from lead paint, not batteries. The lead from crashes
is almost non-existant. Lead in batteries is lead
oxide and lead sulfate both which are stable and not
water soluable so most stay in the casing even when
broken.
>
> > John Grant --.... at present, each of our cars has
> a 30 pound battery.
> Those advocating electric cars would put about 1,000
> pounds of batteries in
> every car. Would it still be minuscule if we had 200
> billion pounds of lead
> on the highways instead of the present 6 billion?<
Yes it would still be miniscule if that was the
case which it never will be. My EV will only have 600
lbs of batteries as will future EV's that are built to
be EV's, not converted ICE's.
Also future Ev's will use ni-cad or lithium
batteries. The large ni-cads, 14 amp hr, I have for my
bicycle can be sent back to SAFT to be rebuilt or
recycled saving money on the next pack though ni-cads
last 20 years. The ones I use now are 30 years old and
doing fine putting out rated current, amp hrs.
>
> In ABSOLUTE terms, there is no minuscule when it
> comes to lead. If a person
> is damaged by lead ingestion, it doesn't make any
> difference what its source.
> To focus public awareness, should the emphasis be on
> the largest source of
> discarded lead or should it be on some activity that
> people are familiar
> with? What is your opinion? There are definitely at
> least two audiences that
> need be addressed.
I'd address the lead sources that actually cause
the problems rather that a scatter gun technic like
you want. Would you ban gas cars because they cause
deaths, I think not. You take the bad drivers off the
road.
In the US the problem comes from lead paint and
lead from gasoline. We stopped using leaded gas 20+
years ago and the IQ's of inner city kids went up 10
points. Lead paint is still a problem though illegal
because of old buildings still around.
>
> To COMPARE, lets crunch some numbers.
>
> In the US fleet of 200 million cars (rounded off for
> ease of calculation)
> with each battery at 30 pounds, there are 6 BILLION
> pounds of lead on the
> road. Use a battery life of five years. Every year,
> one-fifth of the
> batteries are retired. That is 1.2 BILLION pounds of
> retired lead each year.
It's illegal to put batteries in a landfill.
Retired isn't a good word for this , recycling is
though as 90+% of lead batteries are recycled. It's
said that 97% is recycled here. I'm checking on it to
be sure, will post with the results.
Even if it's lower EV batteries will have near 100
% recycling because businesses will do the battery
changing and their battery supplier will demand cores,
by far their main source of lead for new batteries and
required by law.
They put people in jail here, Fla, for doing that,
even 1 battery.
There are few, if any lead mines anymore as
recycling supplies most lead needed. What new lead
comes on the market comes as a byproduct of mining
other metals.
> From the statistics I have seen, twenty-five
> percent of those batteries are
> recycled. For the sake of discussion that leaves
> seventy-five per cent going
> to landfills. That is 900 million pounds of lead
> potentially getting into the
> food chain.
You are wrong about this , where did you get
your sources ?
> If the entire fleet were to convert to the 1000
> pounds of lead per vehicle,
> there would be 200 BILLION pounds of lead on the
> road as you pointed out. The
> recycling figures would have to improve dramatically
> as a replacement source
> of lead. There might not be enough lead mining
> capacity otherwise. Use a
> battery life of TEN years, twice what batteries get
> now. Use NINETY percent
> recycling. That represents 2 BILLION pounds of
> discarded lead potentially
> getting into the food chain. More than twice today's
> number.
Again EV's will have a near 100% recycling
because of cash, law and EV'ers are very eco minded or
they would drive a fossil fueled car.
>
> MITIGATING FACTORS:
>
> The thousand pounds of lead per vehicle in an all
> electric will be less in a
> hybrid.
Few hybrids use lead.
>
> Public awareness in the hazards of lead disposal
> will improve the recovery
> rate>
It already has if you would check it out.
>
> Lead may not be healthy, but discussions to reduce
> the hazards are.
You are a bit late, this was decided 25 years ago
in the US. Where have you been?
>
> Check out
> <<http://www.epa.gov/epahome/search.html>> and enter
> <lead+batteries> at the search prompt.
Couldn't find anything on recycling there. Nobody
who has sense believes lead and other heavy metal are
not dangerous but they can be used without hurting
people. Lead in EV's is probably the safest place for
lead to be. They do have the lead recycling laws
though.
Keith, please post this to where it comes from,
we need to get the right info out there,
Thanks, jerry dycus
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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