Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism & stuff.
Hanns -----Original Message----- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2001 12:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow Hi Hanns Thanks for the info. >Keith, > >Here is the URL of Kokonut Pacific P/L http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au If >you read it you will know as much about DME oil as I. Have sent them an >email but as yet to receive a reply. Another URL >http://www.undp.org.fj/sed/NEWS/news16.htm states the process has been used >Samoa, Kiribati and Fiji. But could not find any further references >elsewhere. > >For a village based appropriate technology process the cost of some $US4500 >plus the necessity for electricity seems rather high. What I thought too. It's too expensive really to be the empowering technology they claim. Government grants and stuff. I get the idea the original process they copied in Tuvalu might be more interesting. Also they talk about all copra being exported for processing and the evils thereof, but that's not the case. They also talk of local traditional uses, which must mean local extraction. I have the impression local extraction is fairly ubiquitous. I'm sure there is local extracting and probably small-scale local plants in India, for instance. Maybe this needs more work. They seem to have done only half the job, breaking off when they had enough for a business proposition to put to funders. Also I don't quite see how it can be an all-weather technique as claimed and produce the oil within hours of picking if it includes a solar drier. Nonetheless, very interesting, thanks again. According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are the two highest producers: Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287 oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635 soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48 rapeseed - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever >Don't know whether >they have patented the process or not. I'm sure they must have. I wonder if the Tuvalu folks get a cut? They need it, I think their island is sinking because of climate change. >Also don't know the fat percentage in copra but maybe someone else in this >forum does. > >Regarding what planet I come from and how many hands there are? Well, >perhaps the third rock, and if you cover both eyes with your hands, then you >really do need a third one! Need I say what for? No, no need! Sorry, Hanns, it's the editor in me. Anyway, try covering both eyes with one hand, much easier to cheat and peer between the fingers that way. :-) The message #, by the way, doesn't come with the emails. The messages are numbered at the list website, and it really helps to have the number if you're searching for a particular item in the archives as there's a number search box. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >Cheers, > >Hanns > >-----Original Message----- >From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 1:15 AM >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow > > >Hello Hanns > >Thanks very much for this info. > > >Keith et al, > > > >One of the problems using palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The > >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone >as > >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia > >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are > >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are > >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right. > >Hence my leaning towards large scale production. > > > >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The >copra > >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so. > >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at > >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small > >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct > >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% >FFA > >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no > >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am > >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in > >diesel engines. > >Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct, >with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either >diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a >mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different >ratios for the two oils), running it straight without a dual fuel >system. It sounds like some coking tests with the DME oil would be >worthwhile. Message #5220, "Re: Diesel operating on pressed oil", >from Dana Linscott on Tue 5/15/2001, described such tests. > > >On the other hand, > >Hey Hanns, that gives you three hands!! Which planet are you from? :-) > > >there are many (presently) unused coconut palms > >throughout the Pacific, and perhaps the DME process could be streamlined >for > >medium to large scale production. This might rejuvenate the village based > >and plantation based coconut industry as well as contribute towards the > >increased production of non fossil diesel fuel. > > > >Any thought on this subject? > >I'm glad you're investigating these issues, it sounds most >worthwhile. Please keep us informed. I have more than a general >interest in your progress, Journey to Forever will be spending time >in areas with palm oil and coconuts where it would have application. > >Good luck! > >Keith Addison >Journey to Forever >Handmade Projects >Tokyo >http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > >Hanns > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2001 1:06 AM > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow > > > > > > >Thanks Keith, > > > > > >Only joined this group about 2 weeks ago and there is so much info I'd > > >forgotten about Aleks Kac's Foolproof method till you reminded me. Have > >just > > >copied and printed it & will investigate how it can be applied to palm >oil > > >on a fairly large scale perhaps. > > > > > >Hanns > > > >Hello Hanns > > > >Good news. Start small! Please let us know your results, there's a > >lot of interest in palm oil, I keep getting asked about it. > > > >Best wishes > > > >Keith Addison > >Journey to Forever > >Handmade Projects > >Tokyo > >http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
