Hi Dave,
I suspect a lot of what you are saying below is probably true
but dont know what the answers are. I believe vegetable oils just like
mineral oils need additives to achieve extended life and minimal wear and
tear. At least all the evidence and research points that way. The options
seem to be using large amounts of oil with minimum additives and a short
life, or a much smaller amount of oil with high additive levels and a much
longer life. Either way the result seems to be the same. In the end we rely
on good old Mother Nature to eventually break the results down or disperse
them with more entering the food chain all the time. The rise of the motor
car may well be the demise of man for all we know. Perhaps thats a good
thing because the real disease on this planet seems to be man rather than
foot and mouth, ebola, and all those other things. Perhaps it is just as
well that oil will run out in 70 years (half that by my estimate). The
sooner we get some of these other technologies on line the better.
B.r., David
----- Original Message -----
From: David Preskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:28 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing
> List,
>
> Engine oil already done. See http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm
> Problem is it needs loadsa additives. Theirs is based on rape (canola)
last
> I heard coz its got a high (60%) oleic acid content, good in boundary
> lubrication, thermal stability, etc. but its a start and I think their
> philosophy is bang on course. Patent issued 1997- ish.
>
> Additives are very nasty and its all kept very quiet by the additive
> companies (Lubrizol, Henkel) although I enjoy treading on their toes.
> Mineral oil is useless without additives and I've heard it said if these
> companies stop production, the oil companies fall.
>
> Its something I've been researching for about ten years now and which is
why
> I'm passionate about veg oils replacing mineral, whether for bio-diesel or
> lubricants. Most lube oils and fuels contain scary compounds - chemists
out
> there should recognise dithiocarbamates, most of us have heard of
> organo-phosphates. Well theres also organo-chlorine, organo-sulphur (smell
> gear oil - hypoid EP90 - thats the sulphur). Heard about the fumes in
> aircraft cabins and pilots passing out? - see muchos debatoes in UK
> Parliament on tricresyl phosphate used in hydraulic oils (no action
though).
> Check it out and don't fly again.
>
> Of course there's no relationship between these compounds and nerve gases!
> That would mean they've been lying to us. These companies are f*****g up
the
> world for us all.
>
> Check out the list below, get some MSDS on these compounds (and don't ever
> get mineral oil lubricants on your hands again). Note it is groups of
> compounds, no specifics. Ring Lubrizol for a laugh and ask them what they
> are.
>
> Dispersants (metallic):
> Salicylate ester salts, sulfonates, phophonates, thiophosphonates,
phenates,
> phenol sulphide, alkyl substituted salicyclates.
>
> Dispersants (ashless):
> Methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines,
> amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid
> coplymers, amine salts of high molecular weight organic acids,
N-sustituted
> long-chain alkenyl succiminides.
>
> Oxidation and bearing corrosion inhibitors:
> Organic phosphites, metal dithiocarbamates (ouch!!), sulfufrised olefins,
> zinc dithiophosphate, phenolic compounds, selenides, amines,
> phospho-sulphurised terpenes.
>
> Anti-wear additives:
> Organic phosphites, sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, alkaline
> derivitaves.
>
> Viscocity index improves:
> Polyisobutenes, polymethacrylates, polyacrylates, methacrylate copolymers
> and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides,
> hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers.
>
> Pour point depressants (remember these before you winterise your bio-d):
> Alkylated wax, napthalenes, polymethacrylates (0.05% in bio-d), alkylated
> wax phenols.
>
> Most are in engine oil for example up to 10% treatment rate, even more in
> critical systems such as aircraft.
>
> This makes me mad (well mad-dog f*&%$}g mad actually). Unsustainable,
> unrenewable crap/bulls**t and lies.
> Ask for an MSDS from these boys - none comes. Commercial confidentiality.
> Bastards!
>
> Solutions, well Ed B pointed out a good one. There is a patent, held by
> Fuchs Petroleum in Germany (1997 priority date 30.10.97 reference:
> DE19747854A1), of a car diesel engine using veg oil as a crankcase lube
then
> burning as a fuel. Problem is its held in a separate tank and
proportionally
> mixed with fuel from the main tank. What else is in the tank? Yup,
> additives. Thats all they think of these oil companies. The technique
isn't
> new, trucks pull off engine oil as they go along and replace it with
fresh,
> the old being used as fuel. What Fuchs do is to draw off all the time. No
> different to a stationary engine I saw described in Chemical Abstracts,
> except that one did'nt use additives........much cleverer.
>
> My research is suggesting that the use of additives in veg oils is
> unesseary. The principles of use of veg oil as a lubricant starts from
> studies in the 1920's where Langmuir (British physicist) recognised
stearic
> acid reduced the coefficient of friction on sliding surfaces greater than
> that of mineral oil. This later became termed as boundary lubrication by
WB
> Hardy (another Brit) in the 1930's. Later still, the mechanism was
explained
> by Bowden and Tabor (Brits again I'm afraid) in the 1940's. The fatty
acids
> become attracted to the metal surfaces (because the FA's are polar,
> something mineral oil is'nt) and a chemical reaction occurs forming metal
> salts which are themselves the lubricants up to their respetive melting
> points.
>
> I firmly believe that in many situations, if you put in the additives I
> listed above, you lose the natural ability of the fatty acids to act as
> lubricants in the first place. THIS IS WHY BIODIESEL HAS ALL THE
PROPERTIES
> OF LUBRICITY WE KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT! Even the additive companies know
this
> and use fatty acids as additives (jojoba oil is a classic example of this
in
> EP applications).
>
> Anymore whistleblowers out there?
>
> thats my tuppence-worth (tanner's-worth even)
> Dave P
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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