Hanns,
The only way you can change things is to get out and do them. If
you wait for others you will still be sitting there talking about it in 10
years time. The problem is not that people think differently to you but that
most of them dont think fullstop. I am often reminded of an old teeshirt
saying which use to say "We are not Yes men we say No when the boss does".
So typically true of most of us. Go to it and you will have a vastly greater
affect than anyone philosophying about it.
B.r., David
----- Original Message -----
From: Hanns B. Wetzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
> Keith, Harry et al,
>
> Have been reading this stuff with great interest. Am wondering if there is
> some way all of us likeminded people could pool ideas and come up with
> something practical that just might begin to make a difference. In my
> opinion as long as our young keep on getting fed with all this
materialistic
> image/gadgets/fashion/video hits/yuppie crap that is dished out by the
media
> industry each day so that the mega conglomerates can endlessly increase
> their markets, we will remain in a no win situation all round.
>
> What happened to the great movements of generations past? Where people for
> right or wrong reasons stood by the courage of their convictions and were
> prepared to suffer for them if necessary. The Boston Pilgrims, the Boer
> Trekkers, the Mormons just to mention a few? Today all we seem to do is
> talk, Phillip Adams calls himself and us "the chattering classes". Sure
the
> Green peace activists play Russian roulette with fuel tankers, tie
> themselves to trees etc., but at the end of the day we all go home watch
the
> telly, eat a Japanese restaurants and wear Calvin Klein clothes.
>
> Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but I wish there was something we could
> do that would just make a little bit of real difference.
>
> I bet the CIA is busy lurking on this list ;-)
>
> Hanns
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary and Jos Kimlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2001 4:36 PM
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 472
>
>
> Now you have made me think!!
> Naturally I don't mean to support the global free trade push, rather I
> support regulation at the national level, but it is the mechanism of that
> regulation I am struggling to identify.
> I like your point about real capitalism as opposed to the corporate way.
> Unfortunately the pooling of resources may be a characteristic of modern
man
> in that it gave a selective advantage to the tribes that employed it best.
I
> am not convinced that this is intrinsically evil. Even at a village level
> those who benefit from working together need a way to demonstrate a social
> conscience, in the absence of a spiritual incentive, taxation seems
> appropriate.
>
> <---profits are privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair
> and maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not,
> to present low and middle income taxpayers.">
> I agree that socialised costs, either infrastructure or environmental, are
> paid for by taxes. There are more low and middle taxpayers and therein
lies
> the democratic possibility of shifting the tax burden to where it belongs.
> And yes it may well be a trickle down effect but without some mitigating
> mechanism the efficient capitalists tend to condense to corporations.
> A classic criticism of taxing wealth is that it removes the incentive for
> economic advancement, that of course is the idea, by providing incentive
for
> the poor and removing the incentive above some point we may reduce the gap
> between the rich and poor. It also caps the local capitalist. If we can't
do
> that in developed countries what chance else where.
>
>
> <The poorer they are the more children they have. I know of no
> instances where the Green Revolution reduced infant and mother
> mortality rates, many instances of it doing the opposite.>
>
> Population would not have increased without a higher survival rate-
> naturally the population expands to meet another (or the same) limiting
> factor. If we rationalise the obvious- that the children we help to
survive
> will contribute to further population pressure- we are on dangerous
ground.
> The best way I can detect to prevent this is to properly educate the
> children and provide them with social (including food) security by taxing
> those who accumulate the wealth. ( Increases in productivity do produce
> wealth and it does accumulate some where.)
> This is improving my expression but I am still waiting for mechanism.
> "Come the revolution" is no longer good enough, nor can we wait for some
> genius, we need to find ways to turn the tide ourselves and use the
> expanding environmental movement to affect the democratic system. Our
"green
> platitudes" work on the converted, pragmatic sustainability and
transparent
> mechanics of change may work on the majority.
> You have offered some insight to the issue of assisting sustainable
> development in under developed States.
> Thanks Harry
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>
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