Todd, Why don't you stop putting words in my mouth, and start *reading* a little more carefully? Let me rephrase the main point if that will help: vigilante justice is no justice. The gov't is responsible for dispensing justice, and it is a travesty when it fails to do so. But if people acting outside legal authority take it upon themselves to seek vengeance when the gov't fails to fulfill it's responsibility, the result isn't justice, but simply greater injustice. (And to point that out is not to support or offer any sort of defense for trespassers. Trespassers are violating the landowner's property rights, and that is no small matter. Neither is it a defense for recreational use of offroad vehicles.)
-- Christopher Witmer Appal Energy wrote: > Christopher, > > "[No]one has the right to be judge, juror and literal > hangman."....????? > > I suppose if no one can place judgement, that makes nothing > wrong - open season - Yippeee!!!!!! > > I wonder why every president fights tooth and nail to have > preferential judges installed, especially if they don't have the > "right." And why the hell do I keep getting jury duty notices if > no one has the right to be a juror? > > Last time I checked, we don't hang people (in the US anyway), and > lethal injection has yet to be invoked for corporate, government > or personal irresponsibility relative to anything. Hell, in this > day and age we could probably remove all the supportive vegetable > matter above a town or village, pull up our easy chairs and > tonics to watch the mudslides and dead bodies flow by, and still > not get charged with a first degree offense warranting lethal > injection - not in any country. > > As for off roaders? I've got virtually no problem with them as > long as their on foot, skis, dog sled or canoe. Been run off the > trails multiple times daily, day in and day out, winter in and > winter out by snow mobiliers. Been swept off a trail and down a > steep incline by a pack of off road byciclists twice. Thankfully > both times it was only a 40* grade. Don't even get me started > with the raw and manly sport of "mudding," where mindless men and > women move from one wetland to another after each is > consecutively destroyed. > > And hell...dunes are nothing but arrid desert right? And if > Manatees are too slow or "dumb" to get out some boating jerk's > way, they deserve to be chopped open by propeller blades. > Survival of the fittest, right? > > Personally? Harmon's smack dab center on target. Save for the > handicapped, anyone who can't get off their fat ass and strap a > pair of skis or lace a pair of hiking shoes should keep their > outdoor activities confined to lawn darts and sipping gin on the > back porch between evening sitcoms. > > Gets damned tiring packing out 25#s of other people's trash > everytime I try and get away from humans for a bit. Just once I > would like to walk out with a pack lighter than what I walked in > with. Especially when a lot of the crap is "packed" in on ATVs. > Something damned queer and irresponsible about people whose > infernal machines can't pack out as much as they pack in. > > Then do me a small favor would you? Would you line up 1,000 ATV > riders, another 1,000 snow mobilers, another 1,000 off road > bicyclists or any other group of 1,000 off roaders. Now please > point out precisely which ones are "responsible" off roaders and > delineate exactly at what point in their "off road experience" > they became responsible. > > Then, let's start the whole process all over again with new > groups of 1,000, repeating the process over and over again, > generation after generation, all the while experiencing the > continual diminishment of "wild spaces." > > I guarantee you, every single solitary one of them are going to > declare that they are "responsible" off roaders. > > And since no one has the right to judge whether they are or not > ..........??????? > > I guess this must all be a bad dream or figment of our > imaginations, eh? > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Witmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2002 10:22 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Open Season on Open Space > > > >>I hope that's hyperbole . . . just because some people are >> > noisy jerks > >>who violate others' property -- admittedly a serious problem -- >> > doesn't > >>mean anyone has a right to be judge, juror and literal hangman. >> > If the > >>gov't won't do it, then use whatever legal means are at your >> > disposal > >>and let that be the end of it. "Environmentalist = Terrorist" >> > is a very > >>short jump in the minds of many people, and for a reason -- it >> > has been > >>true on occasion. It only takes a very few instances to >> > discredit and > >>create a huge public image problem for the overwhelming >> > majority of > >>people who are the very antithesis of terrorists. Even if those >> > words > >>were purely tongue-in-cheek, you have no way of knowing what >> > kind of > >>harm they might cause. For the sake of the causes you care >> > about, a good > >>deal more discretion is in order. >> >>harmonseaver wrote: >> >> >>>The noise >>>factor alone is reason enough. If the gov't won't do it, I'll >>> > bet tire > >>>spikes in the trails and barbed wire neck high will. >>> >> >> >> Yahoo! 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