Keith, I would be willing to forward my email from Mr. Agidi Chuka in Nigeria. He could help Mr. Walburn with his financing and make some extra on the side!
fred At 03:27 AM 2/5/2004 +0900, you wrote: >It's been a week now and no response from Greg Walburn, founder, >Biodiesel of America Inc., who asked for "only 3,000 investors who >want to invest $1000 dollars" in his commercial biodiesel plant (see >below). > >I asked him this, twice: > > >>Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.? > >>And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide > >>some details. > > >I'll ask you again: is your Biodiesel of America Inc. something that > >exists at all, even if only on paper? When was it founded? Please > >provide details. > >Also this: > > >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to? > >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you? > >Seems to me if he had a reply we'd have heard it by now, if not >immediately the first time. His scheme does seem rather undeveloped, >to put it kindly. I'd suggest that 3,000 of our 2,153 members should >perhaps not hasten to beat a path to his door in order to press a >thousand dollars into his outstretched palm. > >Best wishes > >Keith > > > >Yes Greg, that's all very well, except that it's not, and except > >that you didn't answer the questions, and snipped the "Great letter" > >you're responding to (so I'll put it back, below). All of which > >rather persuades me that Bryan might be right about snake-oil. > >That's how the free energy scammers behave. > > > >>I agree with some of your assumptions. > > > >I didn't make any assumptions, I asked some questions and made some > comments. > > > >>However when it comes to > >>capitalism and the markets and making a profit I don't apologize. > > > >There's no need to apologise for any of those. You don't know much > >about this list, do you? Maybe you'd find this discussion > >interesting. Or maybe not. > > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30316/ > > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30354/ > > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30366/ > > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30401/ > > > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/30405/ > > > >>If you took the time to realize Keith, your standard of living would > >>be much lower if we did not "mass produce". > > > >You don't say. Now you're making assumptions, (a) about my standard > >of living, (b) that I give half a damn about it anyway, and (c) that > >I've never thought about it, and you're wrong on all counts. And > >you've completely missed the point, which is a rather crucial one. I > >suggest you try again. > > > >>Yes, there are a number > >>of BioDiesel plants, but there are none in Nebraska. > > > >You've got a market in Nebraska for a plant that size? Or are you > >planning to truck the product all over the place? You're planning to > >waste a whole lot more petro-diesel fuel doing that? Or, worse, > >waste biodiesel doing it? And yet manage to deliver a "cheaper" > >product. Hm. Have you thought any of this out at all? > > > >>The market for Bio Diesel is HUGE. Billions of gallons of gas are > >>sold in this country. It will take a long long time to even take > >>3% of that market. > > > >Did you even read my "Great letter"? You sure didn't hoist much of it > aboard. > > > >>What I want to do is make the best B100 possible and deliever it to > >>those who want to use it. If you want to make your own, (believe > >>me, it takes more time and energy than most think) > > > >Sigh... I don't think so. > > > >>then we as a > >>company will help you do that. Why? Because users are OUR best > >>marketing of Bio Diesel. However we want it to be safe for those who > >>want to try. > > > >Homebrewers are very aware of safety issues and how to deal with them. > > > >Tell me, who exactly is the "we" and "our" you keep referring to? > >"... we as a company..." Is there anybody apart from you? > > > >>I want to first get the waste oil out of the sewer systems, if it is > >>possible economically. > > > >And landfills. And out of the livestock feed as well. I think you > >equate "economically" with a big, centralised industry, in which > >case no, it isn't possible. Only about 10% of WVO is accounted for > >in the US (about the same as other industrialised countries). Waste > >recycling, of just about anything, doesn't work well unless it's > >decentralised, the more it's decentralised, the closer it gets to > >source, the better it works. This is one of many advantages > >local-niche production has over centralised production. > > > >>Secondly, I want diesel manufactures to look > >>into building direct oil engines. > > > >What's a direct oil engine? You mean an SVO or multifuel engine? > >Elsbett built one (see archives), it was the basis of all modern DI > >diesels. It says this at our website, among quite a lot of other > >things: > > > >"... in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are > >likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be > >heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors, > >that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made, > >supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel, > >biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any > >fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and > >switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system > >does that." > >-- From: The TDI-SVO controversy > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html > > > >>This all takes money to make it happen, > > > >Questionable, there are other ways, and they're probably better > >ways. A list member posted this here a while back: > > > >"I just want to say how important what you all are doing here is. > >Closed-system fuel production, on a local or small regional scale, > >tied to local resources, using accessible technologies, and > >dependent on entrepreneurial innovation combined with open-source > >information exchange - it's AWESOME. Keep up the good work everyone, > >before the planet fries." > > > >>and the idea of having a > >>commerical plant to generate income to HELP promote cleaner, safer > >>and renewable energy helps Americans. It will help Ameicans because > >>of a cheaper fuel is available. > > > >Americans don't need cheaper fuel, Americans need MUCH MORE > >EXPENSIVE fuel, everybody except Americans says so, including the > >OECD, and in fact including many of the Americans here on this list. > >$5 a gallon, at the pump, and make it yesterday. > > > >>It will help Americans because > >>there will be a job created. > > > >You should know that this is an international list with a global > >membership hailing from more than a hundred countries and every > >society, among which Americans are a minority, though a valued one. > > > >>And yes, we will help small suppliers get up and running. But what > >>about the family that has no plot of land, no way to make their own > >>fuel, where do they get it if it is all locally made? > > > >Huh? What do you mean? Where did people buy their groceries before > >there was a WalMart or whatever? You think there was no capitalism > >before big centralised corporations? Corporatism is hardly real > >capitalism at all. > > > >"Small-scale capitalism works out fine, but as scale increases the > >departure from real capitalism becomes more pronounced---profits are > >privatized, but costs are socialized. The attendant repair and > >maintenance are left to succeeding generations if possible, if not, > >to present low and middle income taxpayers." -- Tvo, Homestead list > > > >And local communities suffer. I recommend a visit to the website of the > ILSR. > >http://www.ilsr.org/ > > > >>Keith there is plenty of users of bio-diesel that will not and > >>cannot make their own fuel to make our plant run at 100% capacity. > > > >No, you didn't read my post - I said: "Only a tiny minority will > >ever be willing to make their own fuel anyway, no matter how > >push-button it might become in the future..." > > > >>Here is to the FREE market of ideas. > > > >See above quote from list member. > > > >>We will be giving out research in all areas of bio-diesel production. > > > >Based on what? What research? Done by whom? > > > >>Bio-Diesel is an infant in the arena of fuels. Killing the baby will > >>not do any of us a favor. > > > >Are you talking to me? Well, talk away if you must, but I don't > >think I need to defend myself on that score. You do though. > > > >I'll ask you again: is your Biodiesel of America Inc. something that > >exists at all, even if only on paper? When was it founded? Please > >provide details. > > > >Keith Addison > >Journey to Forever > > > > > >>Greg > > > >Previous: > > > >>>If you really want to make biodiesel a household item, think about > >>>investing in its commercial production. > >>> > >>>It is simple a commercial plant cost 3 Million. I need only 3,000 > >>>investors who want to invest $1000 dollars. > >>> > >>>Here is how you make a return. For every $1000 dollars you invest > >>>you will get an allotment of gallons of biodiesel every year at less > >>>than market price (to be determined) you can either take delivery of > >>>the biodiesel or sell your allotment and we will send you a check. > >>> > >>>We need as a group make it economically feasible for biodiesel to > >>>become a reality. > >>> > >>>Once we are up and running we will be developing small production > >>>units available to everyone who wants to buy one. We also will come > >>>to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home > >>>production unit for safety reasons. > >>> > >>>We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and > >>>use it! > >>> > >>>If you are interested to invest send me an email at > >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] no obligation to invest. Once we > >>>reach 2,000 investors then we will send you a email asking for a > >>>decision. > >>> > >>>Thanks, > >>> > >>>Greg Walburn > >>>founder > >>>Biodiesel of America Inc. > >> > >> > >>:-) Heh. > >> > >>Greg, when exactly did you found (find?) Biodiesel of America Inc.? > >>And is it indeed duly Inc.'d, fully incorporated? Please provide > >>some details. > >> > >>Taking it at face value, meanwhile... Has it escaped your notice > >>that there are already several large-scale, centralized, commercial > >>biodiesel producers in America, and in many other places too? > >>Actually we don't have a very high opinion of them, in general - we > >>tend to think "Big Biofuels" might just turn out to be as big a > >>nightmare as Big Oil has been, with wall-to-wall industrialized > >>monocrops of GMO soy and canola, for one thing, along with all the > >>usual "externalisations". The silly thing about that, or one of > >>them anyway, is that industrialized monocropping of biofuels crops > >>would be (is) just as fossil-fuel-dependent as industrialized > >>monocropping of anything else is. Not exactly the best way to > >>produce sustainable biofuels, nor any way at all towards a > >>sustainable energy future. > >> > >>What you'll mostly see here about the big companies is news of yet > >>another case of a commercial company causing problems distributing > >>sub-standard biodiesel, discussion of how they bend their own rules > >>to exclude small-producers, and of how they only promote B20, and > >>at best don't know much about B100 or at worst they're against it. > >> > >>Anyway, as far as making biodiesel "a household item" is concerned, > >>the NBB was recently given a large grant to do just that, which > >>caused some chuckles here on the lists because they're not very > >>good at it (though they seem to be pretty good at writing grant > >>proposals), nor are their commercial-producer members much good at > >>it, despite their big PR agency accounts. In fact they admit that > >>we're much better at it than they are (and we do it for nothing). > >> > >>No, another commercial producer isn't going to change anything > >>much, even if it happens. A really sustainable energy future will > >>take a lot more than merely substituting biofuels for fossil-fuels, > >>it needs greatly reduced energy use, greatly improved energy > >>efficiency, and most important, decentralization of supply to the > >>local level. > >> > >>Which last brings us to this: > >> > >>>Once we are up and running we will be developing small production > >>>units available to everyone who wants to buy one. We also will come > >>>to your area all over the world and help you set it up you home > >>>production unit for safety reasons. > >>> > >>>We want everyone have the opportunity to make your own biodiesel and > >>>use it! > >> > >>Oh dear, more one-size-fits-all ready-made biodiesel processors, > >>something else that has failed to impress. Do an archive search for > >>"Fuelmeister", for instance: > >>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >> > >>That aside, I don't see how you're going to fit this last bit into > >>the same package as a large commercial plant, they're two quite > >>different operations with virtually nothing in common, or even > >>incompatible: a big, centralised producer undermining its own > >>market potential by encouraging independent, localised production > >>of the same product? I don't think it'll look good in your business > >>plan. > >> > >>Only a tiny minority will ever be willing to make their own fuel > >>anyway, no matter how push-button it might become in the future - > >>"home production units" are not an answer to the energy crisis, > >>except for pioneers like the list members here, who'll much more > >>likely design and built their own processors. Small, local-niche, > >>community-level, farm-scale production is the real answer, and > >>that's the opposite of your scheme, despite this local angle you've > >>tagged on to the end. > >> > >>Keith Addison > >>Journey to Forever > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > ============================================================ Frederick E. Finch Delivery System Manager MINITEX Delivery Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (612) 624-3374 Direct 15 Andersen Library (612) 624-4002 Office 222 21st Avenue South (800) 462-5348 WATS Minneapolis MN 55455 (612) 624-4508 FAX Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
