Todd,
Now, you've gone over the line. Apparently you're too stupid to understand what I've been saying. I've never advocated not voting. In fact I've repeatedly stated that the ONLY impact we can make is at the local and state levels. It just so happens that local and state elections fall on the same day as national elections. Do you think I go to the polls, vote for the dog catcher and then go home? However futile the exercise of picking the evil of two lessers may be, it hasn't stopped me from voting in every presidential election since 1988, as well as four of the five off-year elections I've been eligible to vote in. If you want to know how our political system works, you should read the playbook that the politicians follow. Check out 'Phillip Dru: Administrator' by Edward Mandell House. Maybe then you'll realize that it picking a new puppet for the oval office doesn't change the puppeteer. -BRAH -----Original Message----- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:29 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... Last thing in the world I need Bryan, is pointers from people such as yourself who advocate doing less than what is possible. If you want to lay down like a doormat, great. Knock yourself out. Go ahead and waste what little political capital you have and don't vote. Seal the tomb with a little bit more of that concrete called inaction. Some people burn a candle from both ends, others from only one. You would apparently prefer to do neither and stumble around in darkness. Todd Swearingen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Brah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:12 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... > Todd, > > > > I'm speaking from historical and empirical evidence when I say that it > doesn't matter which "party" is in power, nor does it make a whit who > you vote for. The illusion of a "two party system" it is just that. > While each party pushes its own pet programs, history has shown time and > time again, that only when those plans benefit the corporate oligarchs > do they come to fruition. So you can dream all you like about how > wonderful the world would be if Al Gore had not had the election stolen > from him, but that doesn't change the fact that it was and perhaps that > was the reason so. Here's a little pointer to help you navigate the > real world, your political naivety would almost be charming were you not > so self righteous. > > > > -BRAH > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 7:58 PM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... > > > > Bryan, > > > As you point out Todd, I was the first to frame this discussion in the > > "us-them democrat-republican" thing, but it was merely an anticipatory > > post > > Yup. Pretty sad that. Thankfully life in general isn't orchestrated the > same > way you would manipulate a conversation. If it were to model your method > there would be but birth and death with no trip in between. > > As for your "to wit?" PNGV was Gore/Clinton's baby. They saw the writing > on > the wall and certainly were capable of understanding that while fuel > cells > hold futuristic benefits, they were and are not a technology that can > fill > the enormous gap in the interim. It will take 30-40 years at best to > convert > a liquid fuels infrastructure to a market wide hydrogen economy. And > that's > under a transportation "Marshall Plan." > > Putting 10 year life cycles on automobiles, on average, these people > knew > full well that there would be 2 and 3 generations of automobile > manufacture > before a general onset of fuel cell powered transport could become a > reality. That's hundreds of millions of vehicle sales that could have > largely been alternatives to present market offerings. > > But when using your pre-emptive thought process Gore would have scragged > PNGV as readily as Bush? Yeah. Right. And the pope is going to convert > to > Episcopalianism. > > You really need to get those political scales of yours recalibrated. You > seem to think the end results of a dual party legislative/executive > cycle > are going to yield duplicit results as a single party cycle. There's a > big > difference between a set of scales at least partly in balance and those > where a heavy thumb is always depressing one side.. > > As for > > > I don't discount them in the least; I simply doubt that anything I can > > do (within the current electoral system) will make a difference on > their > > actions. > > Then I suggest you sit on your thumb and spin to your heart's content > while > the rest of the world picks up your slack. > > Todd Swearingen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Brah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 12:43 PM > Subject: RE: [biofuel] Moral Dilemma... > > > > As you point out Todd, I was the first to frame this discussion in the > > "us-them democrat-republican" thing, but it was merely an anticipatory > > post. Any time Dubya does something stupid, shortsighted, or > reckless, > > which happens often enough, invariably the lamentation goes up that > "had > > he not stole the election from Al Gore, everything would be > different." > > To wit: > > > > > > > > > I can tell you one thing for absolute certain. Had Shrub not been > > appointed > > > we'd still have PNGV and probably a few 10,000 more hybrids on the > > road and > > > a myriad of other similar far reaching policies that would benefit > > future > > > generations rather than lining the pockets of contemporary > > corporations as > > > is the present destructive trend. > > > > > > > > How can you be so sure? With Republicans controlling both houses > Wooden > > Al would be hard pressed to pass anything. And while they don't have > > enough votes to override a presidential veto, they could easily have > > inserted their environmental rollbacks in appropriations, national > > security, or trade legislation. Oh wait a minute, that's what they > did > > anyway under GW. > > > > > Uhhh....there's just one other thing. If you think that you can > effect > > > substantial change much beyond what color of socks you're going to > > wear in > > > the morning, you're going to have to give some long consideration to > > > utilizing whatever yahoos might be in office on any given day - > either > > > utilize their stupidity against themselves or utilize their sway. > > > > > > > > Nice theory, but I don't have 180 million dollars, and as the last > > election proved, my vote isn't worth squat. As far as utilizing those > > "yahoos" in office, they're a lot more conniving and savvy than you > give > > them credit, how do you suggest influencing them, by writing letters > and > > signing petitions? How about protesting, what do you think that will > > get you besides an entry in the Terrorist (er I mean Total) > Information > > Awareness Database? > > > > > > > But you won't get as much done by discounting them. > > > > > > > > I don't discount them in the least; I simply doubt that anything I can > > do (within the current electoral system) will make a difference on > their > > actions. > > > > > > > > -BRAH > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. 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