Hello, Keith and Rob. The water content in FAME according to EN 14214 is set to 500 ppm. In the long run you will have problems if the water content exceeds 0,5% and if the water content exceeds the percentage level, the problems will occur quickly and rising. BD is basically not storable for more than three months keeping an acceptable quality. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB
[EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? > Hello Jan, Rob > > >It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that > >matter. > >The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means > >that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content > >too high will cause: > >1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the > >hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. > >2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are > >bound to be sour. > > Once hydrolosis has taken its course perhaps. But there is always > water in biodiesel. The various standards set upper limits of > 500-600ppm, but Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria told us that no > matter how dry you get it, it will quickly reabsorb water from the > atmosphere to an average of about 1,500ppm, and that's what you'll > have in the tank. That seems to be correct, and it doesn't seem to > hasten hydrolosis. Frankly, I'm beginning to think all the cautions > about degraded biodiesel are a myth, because I can't persuade any to > degrade, and I'm not the only one. Maybe it has more to do with the > commercial industry's use of the petro-diesel storage and delivery > infastructure, which isn't all that great. > > We've had this discussion here about water content, water emulsions > and water injection before a few times, there is quite a lot of > information in the archives. For instance: > > >http://www.dieselnet.com/ > >Water in Diesel Combustion [subscriber access] > >DieselNet Technology Guide È Engine Design for Low Emissions > > > >Water in Diesel Combustion > > > >Abstract: Addition of water to the diesel process decreases > >combustion temperatures and lowers NOx emissions. The most common > >methods of introducing water are direct injection into the cylinder, > >a process commercialized in certain marine and stationary diesel > >engines, and water-in-fuel emulsions. Emulsified fuels, due to > >increased mixing in the diesel diffusion flame, can be also > >effective in simultaneous reduction of PM and NOx emissions. > > > >Addition of Water to Diesel Process > >Fumigation of Water into Intake Air > >Direct Injection of Water > >Fuel Emulsions > >Practical Embodiments > [more...] > http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002962.html > > "Water Emulsions - Water-fuel emulsions are one of the few methods > that can simultaneously control PM and NOx emissions. Depending on > the engine, emulsions containing 20% water can reduce PM emissions by > as much as 50%. It should be noted that other methods of water > addition, such as direct injection, are not effective in controlling > PM." > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37764/ > [Scroll down.] > > "Here's a roundup below of some stuff we've had previously and some > other stuff, on both water injection and water-fuel emulsions..." > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30409/ > > The US EPA lists 23 studies of water emulsions with dino-diesel: > > "Following is a list of studies that are being considered for > inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of > water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), > hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM)." > http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf > > We've also had reports of successful use of biodiesel-alcohol-water > mixes in Australia, on quite a large scale. As for hydrolosis, you're > probably quite safe if you use it in a month or two, probably longer. > > Joe, re WVO: > > > > >Hello to all: > > > >I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter > > > >it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water > >disolved > > > >in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple > > > >method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. > > > >Searching.........._______________________________________________ > > Heat it to 60 deg C for 15 minutes then let it settle, at least > overnight; draw from the top. Heating to high temps like 150 deg C > can lock that water in there rather than boiling it off. If 60 deg C > doesn't work you probably shouldn't be using that oil in an SVO > system - find better oil. 60 deg C is safer too, no steam explosions. > > A quick test is to heat a little of the oil in a saucepan; if there's > water it will start to crackle at 50 deg C or less; if it reaches > 60-65 deg C and still no crackling then you don't have a water > problem. And, as Rob says, if you do have a water problem, maybe it's > not a problem after all. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > >Jan Warnqvist > >AGERATEC AB > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >+ 46 554 201 89 > >+46 70 499 38 45 > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "R Del Bueno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:16 PM > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? > > > > > > > This is a good question. > > > > > > I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. > > > Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a > > > centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble > > > into a good deal on one). > > > > > > I know some folks are using some vacuum setups to lower the boiling point, > > > and using flash evaporators and or thin film evaporators, but I wonder if > > > it is needed. > > > > > > (As a side question...how much more efficient is a vacuum assisted > > > evaporator from a total energy usage standpoint, than just heat, after all > > > one must use energy to create the vacuum?) > > > > > > There still seems to be some debate over how dry the oil needs to be. > > > > > > For WVO/SVO fuel systems, I am not positive that small quantities of water > > > are all that problematic...after all there are water injection systems out > > > there, and a few companies that sell diesel /water emulsifiers in order to > > > suspend water into diesel fuel as a method of altering combustion > > > temperature to reduce NOX emissions. So from a combustion > >standpoint..seems > > > that small amounts of water will simply turn to steam. > > > > > > Free water over time can collect in the fuel system and cause freeze > > > issues, and corrode internal components of injection systems...but if you > > > are running a dual tank WVO system, switching back to diesel prior to > > > shutdown, there should not be water sitting in the injection system. > > > > > > Does a small amount of water affect the lubricity value of the > > > WVO?..perhaps..but with the initial lubricity of WVO being so high, I > > > suspect there is a bit of room to play. > > > > > > So far I have been running 10 micron filtered gravity settled oil (about a > > > week at around 70degF) with a heated waterblock type filter in vehicle. > > > Very little, if any water collects in the clear bowl. I have yet to run > > > into any problems that indicate water problems...but only topping out at > > > around 10k miles..so nothing definitive. > > > > > > I understand the need to dry WVO for biodiesel production, but wonder how > > > needed it is for straight WVO as fuel. > > > > > > -Rob > > > > > > At 08:30 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hello to all: > > > >I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter > > > >it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water > >disolved > > > >in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple > > > >method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. > > > >Searching.........._______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
