Keith you are indeed correct, but if we qualified every statement we'd never get done On a medium/large scale of biodiesel production you have to assume that negative/realistic attitude. It's one thing selling a few litres to interested committed people like you and me. It's entirely another selling it by the tonne to trucking companies. They have tight margins, especially in UK. Unless their customer is prepared to pay extra (and a very high percentage are not) you don't have a market. Add in the issues about vehicle manufacturer warranty and the premium price quality fuel market becomes very limited.
It would be good to start small selling product at a premium price, but the start-up costs preclude that. We are effectively forced into mid range production. A larger business needs a bigger market and can't afford to be choosy. None of this denegrates the fuel's environmental advantages and cleanliness or the need to deliver top quality ester. But the overriding factor is that the business has to make money. No profit = no business = no biodiesel. As for subsidies, of course you are right, petroleum is hugely subsidised, but it's built into the established world order. USA has already proved it will go to war to maintain oil supplies. Anybody who believes US NMD "Son of Starwars" is not also part of that is sadly mistaken. We can't overturn the world order, but we can influence around the edges. Campaigns for overt tax subsidies in individual countries are part of that process. Whether they are actually higher or lower overall than petroleum subsidies is unimportant. Bio subsidies are visible, petroleum subsidies are invisible/carefully hidden. Dave --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >You have to be cheaper to the customer than the alternative. When it > >comes to diesel fuel, nobody really cares a fig about it's greeness. > >They just want cheap fuel. > > That's very sweeping, Dave. Lots of people care that it's cleaner, > including companies, and it makes a difference. It's also the best > publicity angle, and publicity really helps. > > >Even in Germany where it's well > >established, biodiesel is about 10% cheaper at the pump than > >dinodiesel. > > > >Biodiesel is only successful in countries which have some sort of > >govt support, either as preferential tax rates (e.g. Germany) or > >where municiple authorities are expected to run low emission vehicles > >(USA). > > > >The only other areas where it can compete are where local labour is > >cheap and they have limited cash to buy in petroleum fuels (third > >world countries). > > > >Africa has fantastic potential as an oilpalm for biodiesel producer, > >but they won't get any investment until they sort out their political > >mess. > > Also a bit sweeping. In general you have to remember that when you're > (necessarily in this case) a small guy competing with Big Oil, you're > on a playing field that is far from level. I think a careful > examination would show that nowhere do the subsidies for biodiesel > approach the total of the great varieties of subsidies for petroleum > fuels. > > Best > > Keith Addison > > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Trevor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hello all..... > > > > > > I've read with interest the discussions here about small & medium > >scale biodiesel production. > > > > > > Without question there are a lot of issues and details that would > >need to be worked out prior to the commencement of production, ie: > >collecting, processors, etc.... > > > > > > But as a refugee from the dot.com meltdown, (I'll be paying off > >some of those debts for a while....) the one thing I learned about > >any start-up is "there has to be a market, or you have to create a > >market in as little time as possible". No business lasts long when > >the cash flow is not there. No matter how good the > >product/service/intent is. That said I would relish the opportunity > >to take a crack at a biodiesel small business !! Especially as I > >am a VW & Audi owner / fan. GO TDI !!!!!!!!!! > > > > > > I can only comment on the western Canadian environment, but here a > >handful of o&g majors have the retail (ie: fuel bars) sewn up. It > >seems unlikely (given their vested interests) that they would > >entertain a relationship with a small or "boutique" producer. > > > > > > So where would the market be or potentially be? > > > > > > > > > Trevor > > > Calgary AB Canada (yes the heart of the Canadian O&G biz!) > > > > > >Biofuels at Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuel at WebConX > >http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
